(old school hollywood baseball)

[bobbyi]

BB is about 62/20/1.5. New player is 55/33/1.5.

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif. MP posts a blind of $5.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP (poster) checks, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (3 SB) 8/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, MP folds.

Turn: (2.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, BB checks.

River: (2.50 BB) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB folds.

Final Pot: 3.50 BB

[Trix]

I fold preflop and check-fold the flop. I dont think you will take this down 25% against 2 very loose players, even when they have 2 random hands.
The riverbet is probably good.

[billyjex]

eww.

That is one of the last flops I'd bet out with into two players. Most players would raise w/ an A in there hands but then again a lot of donks limp with weak aces/kings. Also I fold this preflop, I need it to be sooted.

Edit because I suck and didn't see MP posted. I guess it's fine but preflop sucks.

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
I fold preflop and check-fold the flop. I dont think you will take this down 25%

[/ QUOTE ]
That doesn't automatically make the bet wrong. Note that on this occassion I failed to take it down with a flop bet, but ended up winning the pot anyway.

[sinfulslick18]

wow. I would of never done that

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
That is one of the last flops I'd bet out with into two players.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think this is a good flop. The flops I want to avoid betting are ones where the highest card is medium sized because loose players will call with overcards or sometimes even just one overcard. So on a middle flop, they very often either pair or have a straight draw or have overcard(s) and so you get called.

AK8 is much easier to miss completely. Almost no players are so loose that they will call here with something like T2 or 46. So it won't be that unusual for them both to have a hand like this and my flop bet to pick up the pot imemediately. I think it's likely enough to justify betting (also, occassionally something else good will happen, like me picking up the pot later, as I did here, or them calling and me somehow backing into a winning hand, e.g., by pairing against a TJ/QJ/QT gutshot).

[ QUOTE ]
Edit because I suck and didn't see MP posted. I guess it's fine but preflop sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]
As a disclaimer, let me say that I think most people read too much into pokerstove-type stats because postflop is so important to whether a hand is profitable. But still, this is interesting:

14,702,025 games 40.766 secs 360,644 games/sec

Board:
Dead:

equity (%) win (%) tie (%)
Hand 1: 38.2661 % 36.36% 01.92% { random }
Hand 2: 38.2650 % 36.35% 01.93% { random }
Hand 3: 23.4689 % 21.93% 01.54% { 53o }

My two opponents are both posters, so they have random hands. The fact that two players folded has a very minimal effect on the distribution of hands for the opponents. And it is more than compensated for by the fact that the first poster checked meaning his hand distribution is even weaker than the uniform one used by pokerstove. So, if I were all in, I would have almost 25% equity. I could call profitably getting a litter better than 3-1. As the small blind, I was getting 4-1. So as long as postflop play (and the risk of BB raising pf) doesn't work too heavily against me, I am fine. Since my opponents are awful, I'm pretty sure this is the case even though I'm out of position.

[clownshoes]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I fold preflop and check-fold the flop. I dont think you will take this down 25%

[/ QUOTE ]
That doesn't automatically make the bet wrong. Note that on this occassion I failed to take it down with a flop bet, but ended up winning the pot anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just because end you ended up taking the pot doesnt mean its good play

This is really not good, anywhere

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I fold preflop and check-fold the flop. I dont think you will take this down 25%

[/ QUOTE ]
That doesn't automatically make the bet wrong. Note that on this occassion I failed to take it down with a flop bet, but ended up winning the pot anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just because end you ended up taking the pot doesnt mean its good play

[/ QUOTE ]
Um, no kidding.

[BabyJesus]

So you plan on playing this hand like a donkey when both opponents are stated as loose and pretty aggressive. Judging by their preflop hand standards, they are probably the same group of donks that see a lot of showdowns.

If you're betting the flop (bad), you should fire again on the turn and fold to a raise. Given that you checked the turn your river bet is terrible as well. If I was BB i would call you on rivar with 28o. If you do bet turn and get called, time to have a read for river. Does this guy have a frush draw or crappy pair.

Overall I would say you played it badly.

[2ndGoat]

like everyone else, i'm going to let it go preflop. I don't mind the flop bet though. Since when do you need a hand to take a stab at the pot? It's pretty unlikely either of them has an ace or a king since they didn't raise preflop. I don't think I'll try again on the river though. That ten will have paired up just about any random gutshot BB was chasing (if he didn't actually make the straight) which is probably enough for a person that would chase gutshots to call down with... have to hope he was on a flush draw, and there's a good chance he would have been more aggressive with that. A pair is not going anywhere.

It would be helpful to know if the 62/20/1.5 BB's poker deficiencies extend to calling the flop with things like Qs7s (that he could actually release on the river), and if his wsd is as gross as his vp$ip.

2nd

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
It would be helpful to know if the 62/20/1.5 BB's poker deficiencies extend to calling the flop with things like Qs7s (that he could actually release on the river), and if his wsd is as gross as his vp$ip.

[/ QUOTE ]
What do you think his wsd would have to be to make betting the river correct?

[Subfallen]

Not seeing why people have a problem with this hand. Looks good to me.

[Catt]

I'd fold pre-flop, but I don't have any real beef with post-flop. Betting out of the SB on a scary board against limpers seems to me to have its place; doing so against the BB and a poster all the more so. When someone sticks with us to the turn, check-folding is in the plan. When it checks through, you have to think that BB is on a draw of some sort (especially given his AF if the statistical read is acceptable). A blank river offers us a 2.5:1 shot on a hand that we are never winning if it checks through, and has the added benefit of making our turn play look like a whiffed C/R. So, I'm not a fan of pre-flop; I play the flop the same way in some portion of flops seen in the same or similar circumstances; given the turn action and river card, I like the river bet.

[spamuell]

I don't complete pre-flop, especially in a 2/5 structure but I'd play it the same post-flop a lot of the time.