I suspected he was stealing...was this just idiotic spewing? [Archive]

View Full Version : I suspected he was stealing...was this just idiotic spewing?

imported_smoove

06-11-2005, 06:15 PM

This guy was looking very aggressive...something like 24/18/13 after 25-30 hands. I knew he was more than capable of attempting to steal the blinds...even from middle position.

Party Poker 0.5/1 Hold'em (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is CO with A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
3 folds, MP2 raises, Hero 3-bets, Button calls, 2 folds, MP2 caps, Hero calls, Button calls.

When he capped, I was a little less certain he was stealing, but also felt he could likely be keeping up the facade.

Flop: (13.50 SB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
MP2 bets, Hero calls, Button folds.

Now here are all these diamonds, he leads out, and I decide to call with my 2 overs. If I still suspected he trying to steal preflop, should I have raised here? Given the preflop cap, I decided to call. Anyone just fold?

Turn: (7.75 BB) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
MP2 bets, Hero calls.

Well, it's not a diamond, at least.

River: (9.75 BB) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
MP2 bets, Hero...?

I guess that's it, I'm stuck with a crappy A high. And there's a straight showing too. I did notice, however, that he hesitated quite a bit before betting here (which could, of course, be because of the flush and straight potential). The pot is good-sized...only one more dollar.... Anyone call now?

benkath1

06-11-2005, 06:18 PM

I thought most steals came from CO or button area.

I would fold the flop or turn. What kind of hands do most poker players cap preflop with? Unless you have a read he is a complete maniac, I would back down pretty quickly.

Entity

06-11-2005, 06:20 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I would fold the flop

[/ QUOTE ]

Also, preflop is fine.

imported_smoove

06-11-2005, 06:22 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I thought most steals came from CO or button area.

I would fold the flop or turn. What kind of hands do most poker players cap preflop with? Unless you have a read he is a complete maniac, I would back down pretty quickly.

[/ QUOTE ]

They do. But aggressive TAGs will attempt to steal from middle position sometimes just to mix it up, right? And at the time I was thinking he had a good read on me too...that I was merely defending against his blind steal. So he wasn't going to back down and just call at that point. Stupid on my part? Maybe. If I really believed that, I think I should have tried raising him on the flop.

benkath1

06-11-2005, 06:36 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I thought most steals came from CO or button area.

I would fold the flop or turn. What kind of hands do most poker players cap preflop with? Unless you have a read he is a complete maniac, I would back down pretty quickly.

[/ QUOTE ]

They do. But aggressive TAGs will attempt to steal from middle position sometimes just to mix it up, right? And at the time I was thinking he had a good read on me too...that I was merely defending against his blind steal. So he wasn't going to back down and just call at that point. Stupid on my part? Maybe. If I really believed that, I think I should have tried raising him on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you think aggressive tags steal from MP, you might want to consider what an aggressive TAG is going to be raising with. Most likely it will beat A high, especially by the river.

Blind defense is something I am working on, but I generally don't defend a blind that isn't mine. Let the blinds defend tham.

imported_smoove

06-11-2005, 06:50 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Blind defense is something I am working on, but I generally don't defend a blind that isn't mine. Let the blinds defend tham.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol. That's usually my policy too (except against maniacs). Now, I think I played this hand pretty horribly. I think I should have folded the flop. The next best option (I think) was raising, given my read. Calling was the worst option. I called the turn because at I least had the odds to catch one of my overs. But I realize this was stupid because (1) if my preflop read was totally haywire, he could have easily had AA-JJ, AK or AQ, leaving me screwed in almost every scenario even if I caught an A or J and (2) all those diamonds. On the river, I said, oh well, he did hesitate, maybe I've been right all along. The guy was so aggressive pre- and post-flop, I knew there was a chance he kept up the facade the whole way through. How many times would I lose playing this way? I don't know...I'm sure the vast majority of the time.

MP2 has Th Ah (high card, ace).
Hero has As Jh (high card, ace).
Outcome: Hero wins 11.75 BB.

So it turns out he had a hand after all. But I was right about why he capped, and about his maintaining his aggression throughout the hand.

TomBrooks

06-11-2005, 07:09 PM

MP2's preflop cap makes me say 'Oh Oh.'

On the flop, I call as the pot is big and looks worth a shot for one more bet.

I fold the turn.

I think your most likely up against JJ, QQ, KK, AA or AK anyway. Also, if he has even one diamond you are in even a worse position.

PS: I never seen a post flop aggression as high as 13. Is that correct?

Edit: After reading the results, I would still play this hand the same way if it came up again, as there seems to be too many ways you can be beat, but I would be inclined to call down somewhat more in the future.

bozlax

06-11-2005, 07:27 PM

[ QUOTE ]
...I did notice, however, that he hesitated quite a bit before betting here (which could, of course, be because of the flush and straight potential).

[/ QUOTE ]

It could also be that it took him a second to catch his breath after all the laughing?

benkath1

06-11-2005, 07:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
MP2 has Th Ah (high card, ace).
Hero has As Jh (high card, ace).
Outcome: Hero wins 11.75 BB.

[/ QUOTE ]

wtg.

Give him a note, but be careful. Don't be too results oriented. I've noticed the stall strategy alot on party. It's almost like they are actually thinking about their hand. I'm not chaulking it up as a tell just yet.

bozlax

06-11-2005, 07:30 PM

[ QUOTE ]
MP2 has Th Ah (high card, ace).

[/ QUOTE ]

You need to buddy-list this guy right now, and drill him until he's numb. I don't think you can expect him to stay around for very long.