Big pot poker, KQo 7-handed

[Aaron W.]

I have no specific player reads (and it doesn't really matter that much for this hand anyway). The table is fairly loose passive.

Paradise Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (16 SB) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(8 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP3 calls, SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (11.50 BB) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(7 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, Hero...

If you play to the river...
1) If you hit another queen, are you raising?
2) If you hit a king, are you raising?
3) What if a blank falls?
4) What if a flush falls?

[DrunkHamster]

Calls the turn and folds the river UI. I cannot see someone betting into a preflop and flop raiser without an A here, let alone 2 callers. You can't really fold because the pot is pretty damn big. The problem is that you don't know which of your outs are clean, so I would take one off and then play it by ear.

[shadow29]

There is no way I'm not calling, getting 14.5:1.

1) Yes.

2) Yes.

3) Call.

4) Call.

[DrunkHamster]

Do you really think that once you have been bet into and 2 have called our hand is still good? I know SSHE says call the river in big pots like this, but I really can't this being a profitable call. If some of these callers fold in front of us on the river, it might swing it, but not if they both show it down.

[damaniac]

I'm actually not terribly concerned about the overcallers. They either have a draw (which will often be raised on the river if it comes in) or a weak made hand which you probably beat, like bottom pair or something. I'm more concerned about the bettor having an A, but he might be betting a scare card on a draw. Not likely, but given the size of the pot, he doesn't need to that often to make calling correct.

[Aaron W.]

[ QUOTE ]
There is no way I'm not calling, getting 14.5:1.

[/ QUOTE ]

How often do you think I still have the best hand? If I don't have the best hand, how many outs do I have?

[Shillx]

It is hard to say what I would do on the river. We have to know who the bettor is, how many have called, etc.

The turn decision is super easy. Call. Folding here is terrible.

Brad

[shadow29]

[ QUOTE ]
How often do you think I still have the best hand?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure how to express this mathematically. I really don't use that much math, admittedly. There is a chance that he is bluffing at a scare card. That probability is quite slim, I imagine but it nontheless exists. Another possibility is that he has a pair (pp, or on board) that doesn't want to give free cards. That probability is quite slim as well. Again, I'm not sure how to do this quantitatively, but intuitively I'd put it at about 5%. Does that seem reasonable? 1/14.5 is about 7% right?

[ QUOTE ]
If I don't have the best hand, how many outs do I have?

[/ QUOTE ]

Even if we discount your outs to 3 you still have the express odds to call. If we discount further, you don't have the odds (or the implied odds). But I think that 3 outs + that 5% discussed above result in my statement being valid.

However, I'm not so sure that I'd call the river UI now that I've thought about it. Not sure about that one.

[benkath1]

If you play to the river...
1) If you hit another queen, are you raising?
2) If you hit a king, are you raising?
3) What if a blank falls?
4) What if a flush falls?


1) yes
2)yes
3) call
4) /images/graemlins/heart.giffold /images/graemlins/diamond.gifcall

All depends on the action going on too.

[@bsolute_luck]

turn is an easy call. river would be tough seeing as 2 of the 3 remaining Qs put flushes on the board, 1 of your Kings is probably tainted to, and i've seen people limp with AKo and AQo before, and your K completes a possible straight.

[Entity]

Aaron,

Call the turn. River action really depends on what everyone else does. I'm not overcalling UI.

Rob

[Aaron W.]

Big pot, I may have about 3 outs, so I called.

Paradise Poker 1/2 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (16 SB) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(8 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, MP3 calls, SB calls, BB folds, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (11.50 BB) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(7 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, Hero calls, MP3 calls, SB calls.

River: (17.50 BB) T/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 bets</font>, Hero...

Crazy donkbet! To my immediate right, too! Now I don't have the slightest idea what's about to happen. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[@bsolute_luck]

i'd be done with the hand. i don't know if i think it is a "donkbet" as UTG was the only aggressive player on the turn and he checks the river, so MP doesn't want his hand to get checked through. i know the pot is big, but i just don't see 2nd pair being good here.

[mithong]

1) utg probably has the ace.. call the turn bet, fold UI on the river
2) if you hit a king, bet/raise

if a flush falls AND your hand has improved from 1 pair, then check/call