Hello! Dissection of a 40-80 play!

[SittingBull]

Let's assume U are in a 40-80 stud high game.
It's 3-way action.
U have (As 2) 2s 9s
One of the other 2 opponents has (x x) 10 10 and completed the bet on 3rd.
On 4th ,his 10's are semi-dead,but he fires the Max-80.
The other player calls.
assume the pot is rather small on 4th for this limit,how would U play your hand on 4th?
U are completely live and U have a live backdoor flush.
I realize that I'm neglecting a lot of information,but again, use your imagination to devise a reasonable theoretical plan of the situation .

Happy Pokering,
Sitting Bull
/forums/images/icons/laugh.gif

[morgan]

I would tend to fold here. His hand worries me some, but what I find more worrysome is what the other player must have to have called. If this player is weak-passive, then you might be able to ignore him (and in fact he may be subsidizing your stay in the hand). If you want to chase, it will be expensive -- you would already be calling a full double-bet on 4th. I haven't worked out the odds, but my gut says fold. I'm interested to hear what others say however...

[Andy B]

I fold without a second thought.

[patrick dicaprio]

i presume you saw a player call in this spot with this hand. there is not even a question that it is a fold. what does the caller have, even if the 10's are not trips? i would play this hand in one situation, discussed by sklansky. i am in a 5-10 game (or whatever ratio is right) and someone throws a $100 bill on the table and says "play for it boys."

Pat

Pat

[DoctorK]

Although you have a live overcard kicker to your 2s, even if you make aces up, they're likely no good here. I believe it's 8-to-1 against making the flush with a 3-flush on 4th -- so you're not getting anywhere near the price to draw for that. I would fold.

[SittingBull]

on 4th. This post was based on Grant Strauss' article in cardplayer.
Both u and he agreed that continuing to play this hand was a very bad play.

Happy pokering,
Sitting Bull /forums/images/icons/shocked.gif

[SittingBull]

Grant Strauss who indicated that continuing with the hand was a very bad move.
The player did ,in fact, continue /forums/images/icons/shocked.gif with the hand and "sucked out".
Hmmm
Interesting combination of luck and skill in poker games.
I believe the ratio in stud is 60% skill and 40% luck.
Happy pokering,
Sitting Bull

[SittingBull]

(2 A) 2 9 live backdoor flush,live A's and 2's.
He continued to fish /forums/images/icons/shocked.gif and "sucked out".
Hmmm
Happy pokering

[Louie Landale]

I think you will find yourself a significant underdog against the TT even if he has 34o in the hole.

Perhaps someone can do a quick hot-cold analysis, given your hand and is wounded TT with random cards in the hole.

- Louie

[SittingBull]

was that the 10's connected with the case 10 on 5th,giving him an opened set of 10's and his heads-up oppnent connected with A's up on 5th and continued to play.
The set of 10's was full with a buried pair of J's on 5th.
His opponent,who started out with (2 A) 2 connected with
(2 A) 2 9 A on 5th and was praying to the poker gods for another A after seeing his opponent's opened set of 10's.
The poker gods indeed listened to his prayers and blessed him with another A on 6th.
The 10's full showed restraint by going into a check/call mode.

H /forums/images/icons/shocked.gif appy pokering,
Sitting Bull

[SittingBull]

on 3rd with junk in the hole. Hence,he had to have some value in the hole to complete the 3rd Str. betting.
The hand (A 2) 2 9 is a small dog against (4 3) 10 10, assuming all live cards. Hence,against a random player who plays any 3 cards,(A 2)... is a playable hand. There would be enough dead money to remain a viable contender. /forums/images/icons/laugh.gif However,in "little stud" games,(A 2)... would be a folding hand.

Happy pokering,
Sitting Bull

[Andy B]

I wouldn't say that I'm a disciple of Grant Strauss, or of anyone else remotely associated with poker for that matter. I do wade through his articles (although I haven't read the one in question yet). I'm not one for absolutes, but if you can't beat the other guy's board, and especially if the pot is small, it's time to get out.

[Bill Murphy]

As 9s 2s 2c 36.81
Jd Td Jh Th 63.19

With a dead Tc, and everything else live. So I guess, esp. at this level with all the extra aggression and ante stealing, you really need to know door cards, positions, and player tendencies, although folding on 4th can never be that bad.

[polarbear]

Usually you have to figure out what your opponents have. Here, it's staring you right in the face. The guy showing 10 10 has a pair of tens, and something else to go with it since he played his hand.

What's most important is that he has a pair of tens. You can't beat a pair of tens. Sure, you have a pair with ace overcard and three flush, so your hand is playable against a pair of tens with nothing else. But, playing it is only going to be a little better than folding. The problem is, he probably has a 3-str8, 3-flush, 2 pair, or trips with his hole cards. I doubt it matters much whether you call or fold against the 10s + 3-str8 and 10s + 3-flush, but calling loses big against 2 pair and even bigger against trips.

In other words, you're either a small underdog, where it's barely correct to continue, or a big underdog, where it's not even close and it's a major error to continue. So it's an easy fold.

In fact, there's an easy rule to remember in stud. Whenever someone has an open pair, and you can't beat it, plus you don't have a 4-flush or 4-str8, fold. Sure there are rare exceptions that sometimes apply, like if both pair cards are dead, or you have a live 3-str8 flush with overcards and a pair, or a big pot and some long shot draw, etc. However, 95+% of the time, it's the correct play.

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Sitting Bull:

If the pot's small, you almost always should fold.

Best wishes,
Mason

[Mason Malmuth]

I know Grant quite well, and he is an excellent stud player. So I have a lot of respect for his opinion.

MM

[gaylord focker]

Yeah, he playes well, but how about that hair? Much too long for a guy his age.

[SittingBull]

disadvantages of being a Poker Pro,one of the benefits is having more freedom to look the way u want to look.
U do not have to conform to the work place.
As long as his hair is NOT dirty,there is absolutely nothing wrong with having hair up to his feet--if that's what he wants.
In addition, /forums/images/icons/shocked.gif There is no correlation between how well one plays poker and the length of one's hair.
Happy pokering,
Sitting Bull

[SittingBull]