Omaha profitibility Vs Hold 'Em?

[djshawk]

I've been playing holdem for a while now, doing ok. The other night I had a look in an Omaha game and it was like 90% to the flop and large pots each hand. Of course, I sucked the big one, but it looked like a very profitable game.

Does anybody play both Omaha & Hold em? If so how do you find they compare profit wise? Does one game help with the other and so on? Is the variance just as high?

Do any sites offer nano limits to learn at?

Just generally interested in whether its worth putting the time in to learn another game.

Cheers for any advice.

[graarrg]

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I've been playing holdem for a while now, doing ok. The other night I had a look in an Omaha game and it was like 90% to the flop and large pots each hand. Of course, I sucked the big one, but it looked like a very profitable game.

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Especially live, people are helplessly lost on how to play.. so yes, it can be more profitable than hold'em. Often times, people will apply Hold'em hand strength criteria to Omaha and will frequently pay you off with two pair, bottom set, or even aces up.

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Does anybody play both Omaha & Hold em? If so how do you find they compare profit wise? Does one game help with the other and so on? Is the variance just as high?

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Compared to hold'em, I make a lot more in Omaha online, but this may be simply because of the site I play (Paradise has pretty tight Micro hold'em games, but Omaha is a little more reasonable). As for variance, you can play with a smaller bankroll with the assumption that most Omaha games are a lot softer (and less aggressive) than hold'em games, but I would say that you still need a big bankroll if you're pushing every small edge you get and there is a lot of table action.

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Do any sites offer nano limits to learn at?

Just generally interested in whether its worth putting the time in to learn another game.

Cheers for any advice.

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I learned at Pacific Poker, but I think they knocked out their microlimit H/L a couple of days ago /images/graemlins/frown.gif Good luck

[grandgnu]

PokerStars has plenty of microlimits to start with. Party Poker and it's skins is where you'll find plenty of game selection and fishiness (and plenty of 2+2ers trying to make bank) but they start at $0.50/$1 and I believe have a higher rake than Stars.

So, I would recommend hitting PokerStars and starting there. Just play hands with nut potential and you should be ok. You'll want to play hands that have shots at strong lows (with lots of players in the pot) or high/low combinations.

If there's one thing to remember, it's stay away from middle cards (6 through 10) because they can spell disaster for you.

Play hands like A/A/2/3, A/2/K/5, etc. especially if the Ace is suited. Don't play hands like 4/4/9/K or 7/8/9/10 because they usually aren't any good.

Check out the section on Omaha 8 in Super System 2 by Doyle Brunson, it helped me. I haven't read Ray Zees book, but heard good things, although I've also heard that most of the stuff you'll learn there only applies to tricky games, not fishy ones.

[djshawk]

Thanks for the replies, pretty much exactly what I was wanting to hear.

[grandgnu]

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Thanks for the replies, pretty much exactly what I was wanting to hear.

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You just keep away from the fish I'm milking.......wouldn't want to have to hurt your bankroll with my limp re-raise when I hold 8/9/J/J double SOOTED!

[DemonDeac]

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Thanks for the replies, pretty much exactly what I was wanting to hear.

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You just keep away from the fish I'm milking.......wouldn't want to have to hurt your bankroll with my limp re-raise when I hold 8/9/J/J double SOOTED!

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i can't tell if u would actually limp/re-raise with 8/9/J/J double suited cuz im still learning the game.

the hands not that good, is it?

[grandgnu]

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Thanks for the replies, pretty much exactly what I was wanting to hear.

[/ QUOTE ]

You just keep away from the fish I'm milking.......wouldn't want to have to hurt your bankroll with my limp re-raise when I hold 8/9/J/J double SOOTED!

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i can't tell if u would actually limp/re-raise with 8/9/J/J double suited cuz im still learning the game.

the hands not that good, is it?

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I would GREATLY recommend you do this, everytime you're in a pot I've raised. *wink* /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

[DemonDeac]

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Thanks for the replies, pretty much exactly what I was wanting to hear.

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You just keep away from the fish I'm milking.......wouldn't want to have to hurt your bankroll with my limp re-raise when I hold 8/9/J/J double SOOTED!

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i can't tell if u would actually limp/re-raise with 8/9/J/J double suited cuz im still learning the game.

the hands not that good, is it?

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I would GREATLY recommend you do this, everytime you're in a pot I've raised. *wink* /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

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ahhhhhh
i get it

[HavanaBanana]

How high is the variance in Omaha8 vs Holdem?
For a tight holdem player with tilt tendencies it might be a killer?

I imagine it is higher in Omaha8, but I do seldom play it, and have no data which is why I am asking.

ToT

[benfranklin]

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I imagine it is higher in Omaha8, but I do seldom play it, and have no data which is why I am asking.

ToT

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Variance is lower in O/8 than in Holdem. If you play correctly (i.e., tightly) you will be folding a lot of hands (you should generally be playing fewer hands in O/8 than in HE), and you will be picking up enough split pots when you do play to remain about even. The profit is in the scoops and the 3/4 scoops.

[flair1239]

IMO, Low-limit PLO8 may very well be the most profitable game on-line right now.

I base this not only on my experience, but also by watching the results of other tight players. The mistakes in the game are so large and Pot-limit really allows you to punish.

I would estimate that a decentPLO8 $25 player can expect to make as much as a good 2/4 holdem player per 100 hands. With less risk.

I use PLO8 $25 as a break from 5/10 holdem, and I do not consider the time wasted.

[djshawk]

Now I have found out about the joys of O8 and we have decided its very profitable, can we delete this thread?! /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[CallMeIshmael]

IMO, O/8 and S/8 are significantly more profitable than holdem. Bad players tend to make bigger mistakes in those games than in holdem.

Also (I dont think anyone has mentioned this) the variance in omaha is lower than holdem, because you win more pots.

[dozer]

which is more profitable to play in, pot limit , or limit?

[grandgnu]

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which is more profitable to play in, pot limit , or limit?

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I believe pot limit, but the risk of ruin is also greater as well. Fish tend to make bigger mistakes in PL, from what I've heard, but your bankroll can take much more dramatic swings as well. As such, I'm sticking with limit at the moment (getting quartered in pot limit can be especially brutal)

[dozer]

so for a begginer a good place to start would be playing in limit before trying pot limit I am guessing.

[grandgnu]

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so for a begginer a good place to start would be playing in limit before trying pot limit I am guessing.

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This is what I would recommend.

[flair1239]

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so for a begginer a good place to start would be playing in limit before trying pot limit I am guessing.

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This is what I would recommend.

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I think at this point in time, with the general state of the Party Poker $25 PLO8 game; anyone with a decent grasp of basic poker theory would be missing out by playing the .5/1 or 1/2 Limit O8 games instead.

I don't know about long term prfitability. But it is hard to beat a game where you can put in a $10 pot sized bet on the river and get a call from the third nut low, and a Jack high flush.

Not that you wou't get these calls in the limit games, but the magnitude of the mistake is just magnified. I say this as a player, who enjoys limit poker much more than either pot or no-limit.

[donger]

What kind of hourly rate would you estimate for these games?

[Biloxi]

Pot Limit probably has some big swings and killer bad beats by terrible players who get lucky. What about PLO SNGs? anyone play these? it seems like it would have less risk and good reward to play a PL SNG. If you take a bad beat you only loose the buy in instead of a good chunk of change

[popniklas]

Yeah, I've been thinking about that too, and also about Limit O/8 sng:s. Anybody got experience in that?

Myself I just played my first ever O/8 sng. It was not too exciting at the earlier levels but really fun at levels four and above. Especially since I won the tournament. Yay me!

[kyleb]

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which is more profitable to play in, pot limit , or limit?

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Pot-Limit Omaha 8/b is one of the most profitable games on the Internet for the same reason that No-Limit Hold 'em is profitable for most: Most people are worse than you. If everyone is typically worse than you in the facets that makes poker important (game selection, starting hand selection, post-flop play, betting structures, etc) then it only makes sense that the best game to play is one that has the most decisions.

This is why I quit playing Hold 'em and went to Stud 8/b and Pot-Limit Omaha 8/b. PLO8 specifically punishes ignorant or mediocre players - there is the Pot-Limit aspect of the game, the split-pot nature of the game, and then the Omaha variant of the game, not to mention the hand selections. The more decisions your opponents must make, the more mistakes they will make, and you can capitalize on these by making consistantly good plays.

[grandgnu]

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which is more profitable to play in, pot limit , or limit?

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Pot-Limit Omaha 8/b is one of the most profitable games on the Internet for the same reason that No-Limit Hold 'em is profitable for most: Most people are worse than you. If everyone is typically worse than you in the facets that makes poker important (game selection, starting hand selection, post-flop play, betting structures, etc) then it only makes sense that the best game to play is one that has the most decisions.

This is why I quit playing Hold 'em and went to Stud 8/b and Pot-Limit Omaha 8/b. PLO8 specifically punishes ignorant or mediocre players - there is the Pot-Limit aspect of the game, the split-pot nature of the game, and then the Omaha variant of the game, not to mention the hand selections. The more decisions your opponents must make, the more mistakes they will make, and you can capitalize on these by making consistantly good plays.

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While that is certainly true, someone just starting out is better off playing limit. This gives them time to make some mistakes without risking a significant chunk of their bankroll in the process. The swings are less dramatic (as are the profits), but it's a little easier on you mentally.

[BlueBear]

Pot limit omaha games are far more swingy and have bigger pots due to availabilty of draws battling each other, and it's so easy for a fish to find any excuse to play any hand. No limit game is essentially a "high-card" game and even fishies know that they need at least high pairs to play.

In my view, although the fishies play pot-limit omaha and omaha hi-lo worse than no-limit holdem, and hence pot-limit omaha is slightly more profitable. Fundamental mistakes are made in every hand. Regarding the choice of which game that should be played, it's a matter of personal preference for most people rather than deciding which one is marginally more profitable.

[kyleb]

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While that is certainly true, someone just starting out is better off playing limit. This gives them time to make some mistakes without risking a significant chunk of their bankroll in the process. The swings are less dramatic (as are the profits), but it's a little easier on you mentally.

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I could never deal with playing limit - I grew up as a NLHE player, and there would be no way I could deal with the swings in limit. I actually think they are worse in limit poker, to be honest, and that you have a lot less control over your hands. Not being able to charge the opponent large sums for their bad draws lends to greater variance. I would recommend people that come from a NLHE background to start in PLO/8 low-limits, like 25PL.