AK hits in an out of control pot

[Fnord]

UTG is kinda TAggy
BB is even tighter and also pretty aggro

Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Fnord is Button with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+2 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Fnord 3-bets</font>, SB calls, <font color="#CC3333">BB caps</font>, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Fnord calls, SB calls.

Flop: (28 SB) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(7 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG calls, UTG+2 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, Fnord calls, SB calls.

Turn: (17 BB) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(6 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, <font color="#CC3333">Fnord 3-bets</font>, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls.

River: (24 BB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Fnord bets</font>, UTG calls.

Final Pot: 26 BB

[A_C_Slater]

I would not 3 bet the turn. UTG raise already reduces the field for you. I understand that you did not raise the flop because a raise there doesn't protect your hand, but UTG already protects your hand for you on the turn. I would just call the turn. Also, I don't think BB's overcall is all that bad. You may want his overcall and you can save BB's when behind to UTG and make the same when ahead dur to BB coming along with AQ or QQ, unless your intent was to get him to fold another AK?

[Fnord]

[ QUOTE ]
unless your intent was to get him to fold another AK?

[/ QUOTE ]

He might also fold AA to this much pressure.

With a huge pot, I think it's worth the extra bet to try to win it.

[A_C_Slater]

I don't think he's folding AA. Maybe for 3 cold, but he already has one BB in there. He would hope you have two pair and call hoping to counterfeit in this large pot. And he would still call the river UI if its one bet or even two bets to him just in case you have AK or KQ.

[drudman]

I'm trying to decide what to put UTG on. His play is strange.

TAG raises UTG, then calls right after the PF capper on the flop, but then all of a sudden wakes up and raises the turn when a dud hits? I have trouble putting him on a monster that he's slowplaying, because he would have raised to protect on the flop (unless he's an idiot). But the turn can't have improved him.

[istewart]

He can't protect on the flop. He can't protect that much on the turn either, but he does cut down the odds facing the field.

[sweetjazz]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm trying to decide what to put UTG on. His play is strange.

TAG raises UTG, then calls right after the PF capper on the flop, but then all of a sudden wakes up and raises the turn when a dud hits? I have trouble putting him on a monster that he's slowplaying, because he would have raised to protect on the flop (unless he's an idiot). But the turn can't have improved him.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ed Miller would be rolling in his grave right now, except that he's still alive.

[Fnord]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm trying to decide what to put UTG on. His play is strange.


[/ QUOTE ]

I was thinking maybe KQo, but even that doesn't fit. 77 fits but nahhh....

[tytygoodnuts]

I am raising the flop for value. Just calling is gives you no strategic advantages on the turn. Go ahead and push you pot equity. TPTK is a strong hand.

[drudman]

So you're against trying to put him on a range of hands? Or even thinking about it?

[Dave D]

Yeah, even having TPTK with that many people in the pot is pretty vulnerable. I'd be raising as much as possible on all streets to thin the field.

[damaniac]

I think he means that raising to protect on the flop (which you said one of the players should have done) is nowhere near possible, given the pot size.

[DCWildcat]

Agreed. There's no way we can protect the pot here, but value value value! Equity edge! Push it!

[sweetjazz]

[ QUOTE ]
I think he means that raising to protect on the flop (which you said one of the players should have done) is nowhere near possible, given the pot size.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bingo. The wait-for-the-turn-raise suggests to me that UTG has AA, KK, AK, KQ, or KJs. That makes 3-betting the turn with AK a good play.

[damaniac]

He might. This is where I suck at reading people. I don't know if they are smart enough to know when to wait for the turn with a good but vulnerable hand to protect, or if they are just slowplaying a monster. A lot of good TAGs wouldn't wait and just plug away, even in situations where one should wait. See, if only people played smarter and better, I could read them better and win more. /images/graemlins/wink.gif

[sweetjazz]

The pot is big enough that you 3-bet even though you aren't positive that UTG knows to wait for the turn to raise with vulnerable hands. Besides, the only other monsters that UTG can reasonably have, given his PF raise are TT (very possible, though like KK, he'd possibly raise on the flop here) or KTs.

[damaniac]

Absolutely. I 3-bet or raise lots of turns even when I think there is a considerable chance I am beat, because the pot is big and there are people left to act. Even if it is a mistake given opponents' likely range of hands and your vulnerability if you are ahead, the size of the pot pads the mistake and makes it pretty miniscule.

[Fnord]

UTG had 77 /images/graemlins/frown.gif

I have second thoughts about my flop play and river bet.