Daily Hand Post : KJo in LMP

[GuyOnTilt]

Hey guys,

I'm gonna start posting hands again, hopefully every day I get on here. It's been way too long.

Good 30 game. Limper is unknown, but his numbers appear loose'ish. Button is pretty bad preflop and on the flop.

Three folds and MP limps. Folded to me and I raise with K /images/graemlins/club.gifJ /images/graemlins/heart.gif in LMP. CO folds, Button calls, blinds fold, limper calls. 3 to the flop for 7.5 SB's.

Flop comes: Q /images/graemlins/club.gif9 /images/graemlins/spade.gif4 /images/graemlins/club.gif

Checked to me and I bet, Button calls, MP folds. HU for 4.75 BB's.

Turn comes: 9 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

I bet, Button calls.

River comes: Q /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

I check, Button bets, I raise.

I play AK or AJ the same way, FWIW.

GoT

[Joe Tall]

My bad...I'm the original donkey around here and if I look back I think I used that term first, calling myself one, of course.

[GuyOnTilt]

[ QUOTE ]
GoT, the title of you post, is JTs and you are holding KJo?

Edit?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty sure I have no idea what you're talking about.

GoT

[Somekid]

I wish I had something to say. I really like this hand. Especially after reading the post complaining about the quality of hands in the forum. The way you played it would never occur to me. I guess I have a lot of learning to do.

[meep_42]

I dig pf through the turn.

The river, however, is where it gets interesting.
Villain could be betting 3 things:

1. PP<9 or K -- a bluff, essentially. He's not paying off a raise here, so EVcalling = EVraising.
2. A Q or 9 -- he's going to call every time and raise sometimes (where you won't pay off ever), raise is -1BB against calling.
3. Ace-high -- does he fold here enough for your raise to work?

The way the hand plays out, I think your hand is good here a decent % of the time, actually, as villain seems to have JT, Ax/images/graemlins/club.gif, or a low PP to call along like that. There's an outside chance he plays QJs like this, though, too.

I think villain may lay down A-high here just enough to make this profitable.

Very interesting.

-d

[DMBFan23]

[ QUOTE ]
I play AK or AJ the same way, FWIW.

[/ QUOTE ]

what about AQ? it seems by your omission you bet, but then what other legit hands do you checkraise?

(I say legit not in terms of winning when called or getting him to fold, but in terms of "beating an ace kicker")

[blatz]

Took me about 30 seconds to get it. He's got an ace at best, and no way he can call the check raise. Bad player would have raised somewhere if he had a Q or 9, you've only represented stregnth. Nice hand that I probably would have lost. Thanks

[meep_42]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I play AK or AJ the same way, FWIW.

[/ QUOTE ]

what about AQ? it seems by your omission you bet, but then what other legit hands do you checkraise?

(I say legit not in terms of winning when called or getting him to fold, but in terms of "beating an ace kicker")

[/ QUOTE ]

What about 77/88? Other than the chance your ahead, the bluff raise will work just as often...

-d

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
I think villain may lay down A-high here just enough to make this profitable.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really doubt he's value betting ace-high here--don't you think he'd be happy to check it behind? Not much of a read to go on but "pretty bad preflop and on the flop," doesn't seem to me he'd be savvy enough to put GoT on an u/i ace and try to get all of what looks like a split pot.

I can't say that I'd think to make this play, but it seems really solid. I just don't see this guy being able to call very often and it pretty clearly looks like he has neither a queen or a nine.

[PokerSparky]

Will this play work against low limit players? This seems like a play that has a much higher EV at higher limits.

I love this play with AJ or AK, since you're most likely chopping at worst, and could get him to fold an A here quite often.

[DMBFan23]

I guess I'm specifically asking about Q hands, TT, JJ, KK, AA. then there's A high for which I can expect a split, K high which is probably borderline but can expect him to fold K high, and J high or worse for which I really would like him to fold any K high or A high


I ain't ahead with no 88 here /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[dealer_toe]

I like the play w/ AK and AJ also, which I'm sure is your point, because you're representing those hands. How does the button play the flop bad? If he is usually too aggressive, then you can rule out a Q or much of a piece of that flop.

If he thinks you have an UI ace, he's likely to raise on on the flop or turn somewhere.

I'm thinking villain has 88 or so, and that was a good c/r for value. AK he's 3betting preflop, AQ he's popping it somewhere, AJ or worse he isn't CC. Any PP higher than the 99 he's popping it somewhere too, so I think K high is good here.

[PokerSparky]

From OP description of the button, I think we can include Ax in his range of hands.

I guess I feel like a crappy post flop player here is calling with his A more often than not. That being said, I don't think this play has to work more than 50% of the time to be profitable. So yeah, I like it.

[JoshuaD]

I don't know about at those limits, but down at 2/4 and 3/6 there are alot of guys who can play a Q or a 9 this way. With a specific read this makes more sense to me, but against unknowns at those levels I think it's just spewing.

I'm very likely to be wrong though.

[jskills]

So the assumption here is that villan was bluffing at the river and is going to fold for 1 more bet or that K high is good here?

sorry to be dense ...

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
So the assumption here is that villan was bluffing at the river and is going to fold for 1 more bet or that K high is good here?

[/ QUOTE ]

Both.

[meep_42]

Sometimes K-high is good here, (against PPs<9 and JT), and those times this raise is as good as a call, since he'll almost never bluff-3bet.

It's the other times we're concerned about, we want to encourage villain to lay down A/K high.

-d

[jskills]

Thanks - that's a new one for me.

good [censored] ...

[Klepton]

thank you for posting this

this is a perfect example of a hand that should be posted here

[toss]

So a bad player will usually raise with a 9 or Q on the flop or turn into the PF raiser?

[sweetjazz]

I'd like to have more of a read on the button, but such is life in a world of incomplete information.

I like this play better than if the turn-river had come Q-9 (instead of 9-Q). The way the hand has played decreases the likelihood of button having a Q (probably would have raised the flop) or a 9 (probably would have raised the turn).

From this hand only, button looks pretty passive here. But I don't know if there is any opponent you can lay down to here (absent a great read), because checking the river OOP on a double-paired borad is screaming for a bluff, even to the most casual player. You don't have to fold an A or a K too often here to make raising better than just calling....but I still think it is pretty marginal. I'm always amazed how many bad players have a hand like Q7 or T9 here.

I think I would much prefer a check-call line with AK or AJ, though. The possibility of folding an A is what makes me think that check-raising with KJ may be best.

[SL__72]

I think this is a good bet if you feel he will lay down Ax 1/4 of the time, which I think he probably would.

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
I think I would much prefer a check-call line with AK or AJ, though. The possibility of folding an A is what makes me think that check-raising with KJ may be best.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the exact reason the check-raise is such a good play with AK or AJ. No one, and I mean no one, is 3 betting a check-raise with less than a boat there. An ace may fold, so you add a bit of value. Stealing what would be a split pot is really quite a coup.

[dealer_toe]

There's a lot of different kinds of bad players. Too passive, Too aggro, Too loose, Too tight and Too weak are the common types (don't mean to state the obvious)

[SL__72]

I still like this raise holding an ace. You are gaining 4BB if he folds an ace, losing nothing if he calls with one and only losing 1BB when he reraises (assuming a fold). I think him having and laying down an A is probably at least 1/4 as likely as him coming back over the top here or calling with a better hand.

[Stack]

[ QUOTE ]
This is the exact reason the check-raise is such a good play with AK or AJ. No one, and I mean no one, is 3 betting a check-raise with less than a boat there.

[/ QUOTE ]

Just to back this up, I don't think that even a 9s full would raise here.

I did not underestand this play when I first read it half an hour ago (like the many things that I don't underestand in this game) but it's amaizing how a good post can open your mind and make you think beyond the "standard".

I hope you will keep your promise and post one hand each day. Thank you.

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
Just to back this up, I don't think that even a 9s full would raise here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed.

[dealer_toe]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Just to back this up, I don't think that even a 9s full would raise here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed.

[/ QUOTE ]

also agree...does a 9's full FOLD here? And how bad is the Villain PF that he CC's w/ a 9?


I think there is a slight chance he folds 9's full here, but there is less chance he has a 9. I'm seeing more and more that this is a huge read dependant play. And I don't like it w/ as little information as we have on him.

[brettbrettr]

*Maybe* 9's full folds. I doubt it, but maybe. But I really doubt he's holding a 9. Big A, PP, seems likely.

[dealer_toe]

JJ or TT is something that a Bad PF player wouldn't 3 bet, and would also explain the passive play w/ the Over card on board. I think these are pretty likely now.

[sweetjazz]

I explained my logic poorly in the previous post. What I meant was that folding an A gives us more (half a pot more) with KJ, plus we also get half a pot more if we fold K high. This might be enough to make check-raising right with KJ and wrong with A high.

FWIW, I am check-raising with a Q here against any semi-aggressive opponent (i.e. is not suffering from rigor mortis). I think this will induce bluffs, and that A high will call the check-raise here a lot of the time. It may also induce a 3-bet from 9's full if the opponent is really loose and aggressive.

Of course, with a 9, I'm betting out and calling a raise.

[Stack]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm seeing more and more that this is a huge read dependant play. And I don't like it w/ as little information as we have on him.


[/ QUOTE ]

I see what you mean. One might need less of a read in the 30/60 level than in the 3/6 level to make this play profitable.

But I do agree that at 2/4 or 3/6, I wouldn't try this without a good read on my opponent.

[sweetjazz]

He needs to lay down Ax more than 1/4 of the time. Laying it down 1/4 of the time will profit it us only if we are assuming that he has Ax. And you're comparing check-raising to folding, which ignores the fact that we likely have to at least call in case he's bluffing with a counterfeited two pair or JT.

He could well have TT, JJ, AA, KK, a Q or a 9, and I bet he does have these hands a not insignificant proportion of the time.

I think he has to be a player who will bet A high in the first place when checked to, in order for this analysis to even get started. Then, let us assume that 30% of the time he's betting a hand above that beats us and is not folding to a check-raise (though if he folds TT or JJ here....that's great for us), 20% he's betting a busted draw or small PP that can't call our check-raise, and 50% of the time he has Ax. Let's assume that there is an x probability he will fold Ax to the check-raise. (For simplicity, let's assume he doesn't have Kx.)

Then our check-raise nets us: -2 BB 30% of the time, +8 BB 20% of the time, +8 BB .5x of the time, and -2BB .5(1-x) of the time. This equals -0.6 + 1.6 + 4x - (1 - x) = 5x BB.

Just calling nets us, -1 BB 80% of the time and +8 BB 20% of the time, which is +0.8 BB.

Thus, we need 5x > 0.8 or x > 0.16.

For AJ, the analysis would be:
-2 BB 30% of the time, +8 BB 20% of the time, +8 BB .5x, +4 BB .5(1 - x), which amounts to an EV of 2x + 3 BB if we raise.
And -2 30% of the time, +8 BB 20% of the time, +4 BB 50% of the time, which amounts to an EV of 3 BB if we just call.

Interestingly, this gives x > 0.

If this model is reasonable, check-raising with KJ is better than calling (and also better than folding, which should be obvious). And check-raising with AJ here is even better.

Two possible flaws with the model:
(1) We're assuming villain has Ax a lot here. If there is some chance he would check behind with Ax in this spot, that must be accounted for.
(2) We're assuming he won't bluff 3-bet us off the best hand here ever. That's a pretty reasonable assumption, but it should be noted nevertheless.

[dealer_toe]

I wouldn't discount how important the read is at 30/60. At 3/6 and lower you aren't going to find anyone that this play will be affective. The read is equally important at both levels.

[Stack]

[ QUOTE ]
The read is equally important at both levels.



[/ QUOTE ]

Oh absolutely. What I meant is that with the amount of reads available to GOT at the 30 game, he made that play. I don't know if he would make that play with the same amount of reads at 3/6. He would need a more precise read at these lower levels.

I've never played that high, so this is just how I feel. I'm sure he'll jump in if I'm wrong.

[dealer_toe]

I understand what you're saying. You would need a very specific read on someone at 3/6 to make this play. And I am adding to that, that it is highly highly unlikely that you will find anyone at that lower level that something like this would work.

[oreogod]

That is a beautiful play.

[Evan]

After I finished playing last night I was watching GoT and then played for him while he went to look for something. After he came back I kept playing while he watched and this hand came up. If it hadn't been for the combination of talking with him about similar plays and this thread I would NEVER have thought of this play. As soon as the river card hit I thought it looked like a good place to try to steal the pot, then he said, "see, this is a spot where I'd try a river check raise." I haven't had a moment like that, where something completely new clicked, in long time...it was pretty exciting.

Party Poker 30/60 Hold'em (3 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (3 SB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, Button checks.

Turn: (1.50 BB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises</font>, SB folds, Hero calls.

River: (5.50 BB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, <font color="#CC3333">Button bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button folds.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB

[cassady]

what do you put button on prior to him folding to the check-raise?

[Schizo]

[ QUOTE ]
My bad...I'm the original donkey around here and if I look back I think I used that term first, calling myself one, of course.

Edited by Joe Tall (06/10/05 04:08 PM)


[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Evan]

Most likely a bluff, a 5 or a 6.

EDIT: By 'bluff' I mean a continuation of a semi bluff, not something completely random, most likely.

[GuyOnTilt]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I play AK or AJ the same way, FWIW.

[/ QUOTE ]

what about AQ? it seems by your omission you bet, but then what other legit hands do you checkraise?

(I say legit not in terms of winning when called or getting him to fold, but in terms of "beating an ace kicker")

[/ QUOTE ]

Hey DMB,

I'm betting a full house or a pocket pair better than 9's here. He won't bluff a whole lot with busted draws, but there's no way he's folding an Ace here. He'll bet both sometimes of course, but I think I'm losing a bet versus an Ace that checks through more often than I'm going to gain a bet by checking here.

So yeah, basically I'm not check-raising any legitimate hands here besides Ace high, which really is actually a pretty good hand here against his range. I check-raise the river very often with strong holdings after betting the turn and getting called HU though, so I'm able to cover for the times I bluff c/r or value-bluff c/r, AK and AJ in this hand being a good example.

GoT

[GuyOnTilt]

[ QUOTE ]

I don't know about at those limits, but down at 2/4 and 3/6 there are alot of guys who can play a Q or a 9 this way. With a specific read this makes more sense to me, but against unknowns at those levels I think it's just spewing.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right in that I wouldn't advise this play against a complete unknown at those limits or a guy who consistenly weird-plays. Against a semi-decent or somewhat thinking or capable opponent I think this is the play, even at 2/4 thru 5/10 full.

GoT

[Luv2DriveTT]

[ QUOTE ]
After I finished playing last night I was watching GoT and then played for him while he went to look for something. After he came back I kept playing while he watched and this hand came up. If it hadn't been for the combination of talking with him about similar plays and this thread I would NEVER have thought of this play. As soon as the river card hit I thought it looked like a good place to try to steal the pot, then he said, "see, this is a spot where I'd try a river check raise." I haven't had a moment like that, where something completely new clicked, in long time...it was pretty exciting.

[/ QUOTE ]

Tell us about the Button Evan, what were his stats like? Is he the type of player that can fold 56s here? A5o? 5x? Ax? I like this play a lot, knowing more about the opponent helps us get into the groove.

TT /images/graemlins/club.gif

[Evan]

[ QUOTE ]
Is he the type of player that can fold 56s here? A5o? 5x? Ax?

[/ QUOTE ]
No one is folding any of those hands, other than 5x, ever.

Button is 37/19.5/1.56 over 1662 hands.

[PokerBob]

.....not becuase it is a bad move, but because it should only be applied vs. the right opponent at the right time. Most of the people who read this forum play 2/4 or 3/6. This happened in a 30/60 game, where I am sure the player dynamic and skill level is much different. I am not trying to be critical of Evan or GoT, I just would hate to see a lot of 2/4 players getting carried away with this. At 30/60 this is an advanced, expert play. At 2/4 or 3/6 it is FPS.

[krishanleong]

I don't like it. Here are my thoughts.

Button cold calls a raise preflop. Against the kinda guy who folds to check raises, I'll put his range at 22-TT, JTs, and other suited faces.

He calls the flop. Could be in order of likelyhood 88-22, JT, AcXc, a 9, a Q.

He calls the turn. I really doubt he has a 9 and I think it moderately unlikely that he has a Q. I still think a small pp is the overwhelming favorite. Could be in order of likelyhood 88-22, JT, AcXc, unlikely (a Q, a 9).

On the river, the board pairs counterfeiting a small pp. It doesn't complete the obvious straight or flush draws. So you check to induce a bluff. I'm sorta with you there but I don't understand the point of the cr. It's either for value or to fold a better (tied?) hand.

I can't see any worse hand calling so I doubt it's for value. (Occasionally online you'll see people look up a river cr with a busted draw just for info but ignoring that, it looks like a crappy value cr)

A 9 will never fold. He doesn't have a 9 though. A busted straight or flush can't call the cr. The cr has no value against these hands though. A call would be just as good.

I don't think ace high folds here. It also seems unlikely that he has Ace high here. AT, AJ maybe but unlikely.

I could see him folding KJ, KT to the cr. But I don't think these hands comprise enough of his hand range to make the river cr better than just calling.

The same analysis holds true for you having AK, or AJ. Thanks for the post,

Krishan

[gaming_mouse]

Krishan,

I like your analysis. I am very curious to see how GoT responds to it. GoT?

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]

I like your analysis.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks!

<font color="white"> really just a bump </font>

Krishan

[PokerSparky]

[ QUOTE ]
30/60 Hold'em (3 handed)

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a vital detail to this post IMO.

[GuyOnTilt]

Hey Krishan,

[ QUOTE ]
Button cold calls a raise preflop. Against the kinda guy who folds to check raises, I'll put his range at 22-TT, JTs, and other suited faces.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is a little too narrow. Hands like A2s-ATs, AJ-A7o, KJs-K8s, KJo-K8o, medium suited connectors and one gappers, etc. are all possible here.

[ QUOTE ]
He calls the flop. Could be in order of likelyhood 88-22, JT, AcXc, a 9, a Q.

[/ QUOTE ]

Again, too narrow. 88-22, KJ, KT, JT, A-high, pair of 9's, T8s, J8s, weak flush draw, etc. Lots and lots of hands here.

[ QUOTE ]
He calls the turn. I really doubt he has a 9 and I think it moderately unlikely that he has a Q. I still think a small pp is the overwhelming favorite. Could be in order of likelyhood 88-22, JT, AcXc, unlikely (a Q, a 9).

[/ QUOTE ]

As you said, trip 9's are very, very unlikely here. A weak suited Q is a possibility, though not nearly as likely as an under-pair, A high, straight draw, or a weak flush. I would put them in that order too.

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think ace high folds here. It also seems unlikely that he has Ace high here. AT, AJ maybe but unlikely.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ace high folds here quite a lot in just about all games I play (this includes live small stakes games) by all but THEE loosest tier of players. I guess if you don't agree with that then you're not going to agree with this play, so there's really no point in going into any math or anything. So I'll just say that raising with A-high on double paired boards in chopping situations has a non-insignificant impact on my winrate. You have to find a good frequently and often call with it to show that you just call there with an Ace obviously, but these types of plays are solid at all levels I've ever played.

[ QUOTE ]
The same analysis holds true for you having AK, or AJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, it really doesn't. It shouldn't be hard to see why.

GoT

[krishanleong]

I agree my hand range might be a little too narrow. In my experience players aren't that likely to coldcall with Axs. I agree about the suited connectors and one gappers though.

If you include Axs as a possible cold calling hand, your line begins to look better.

[ QUOTE ]
Ace high folds here quite a lot in just about all games I play (this includes live small stakes games) by all but THEE loosest tier of players. I guess if you don't agree with that then you're not going to agree with this play, so there's really no point in going into any math or anything. So I'll just say that raising with A-high on double paired boards in chopping situations has a non-insignificant impact on my winrate.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm convinced. I probably just haven't tried to push someone off Ace high on a double paired board enough yet to know it's efficacy. I'll give it a try. Great thread, thanks,

Krishan

[ QUOTE ]

Quote:
The same analysis holds true for you having AK, or AJ.



No, it really doesn't. It shouldn't be hard to see why.

GoT

[/ QUOTE ]

I couldn't figure this one out. It looks to me like the reasons to cr AJ/AK are the same as raising KJ. To push Villian off ace high. What am I missing?

[gaming_mouse]

[ QUOTE ]
Ace high folds here quite a lot in just about all games I play (this includes live small stakes games) by all but THEE loosest tier of players. I guess if you don't agree with that then you're not going to agree with this play, so there's really no point in going into any math or anything. So I'll just say that raising with A-high on double paired boards in chopping situations has a non-insignificant impact on my winrate. You have to find a good frequently and often call with it to show that you just call there with an Ace obviously, but these types of plays are solid at all levels I've ever played.

[/ QUOTE ]

very interesting.

[Malcom Reynolds]

[ QUOTE ]
I couldn't figure this one out. It looks to me like the reasons to cr AJ/AK are the same as raising KJ. To push Villian off ace high. What am I missing?

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, if your opponent generally has a worse ace, you want to check-call, as check-raise will be a losing play, only getting called by worse hands. Check-raising KJ gets called by worse hands, but makes better hands fold which makes it worth it.

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
it was pretty exciting

[/ QUOTE ]

Evan, if this is what gives you that much of a hardon, then I think you might have a problem

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I couldn't figure this one out. It looks to me like the reasons to cr AJ/AK are the same as raising KJ. To push Villian off ace high. What am I missing?

[/ QUOTE ]
Well, if your opponent generally has a worse ace, you want to check-call, as check-raise will be a losing play, only getting called by worse hands. Check-raising KJ gets called by worse hands, but makes better hands fold which makes it worth it.

[/ QUOTE ]

He checkraises with AK and AJ also. Which I assume is for the same reasons he checkraises with KJ.

Krishan

[DMBFan23]

wow. I can't say I've ever had a concept hit me quite so hard, except when I first learned what raising for value was.

[ QUOTE ]
but I think I'm losing a bet versus an Ace that checks through more often than I'm going to gain a bet by checking here.


[/ QUOTE ]

in response, I wanted to type "but if ace high can't be counted on to bet then how can you expect to checkraise here" but then I realized that he really doesn't need to bet that often and fold to it that often to make that play +EV since it steals you the pot. less +EV with AK and AJ (you're only earning half the pot when he lays down A high) but still he doesn't have to bet nearly CLOSE to everytime to make that play worth it. word.

with AQ, he DOES have to bet almost every time because you are sure to collect one bet by betting, where as he will only bet sometimes and not call your c/r often.

[QTip]

Awesome thread! Thanks for posting this hand. Have to toggle to grasp everything more later...

Thanks.

[Malcom Reynolds]

[ QUOTE ]
He checkraises with AK and AJ also. Which I assume is for the same reasons he checkraises with KJ.

[/ QUOTE ]
Hmm. Maybe to push off pocket pairs too?

[private joker]

I kind of want results on this one. Did he fold?

[krishanleong]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
He checkraises with AK and AJ also. Which I assume is for the same reasons he checkraises with KJ.

[/ QUOTE ]
Hmm. Maybe to push off pocket pairs too?

[/ QUOTE ]

pp? Did you read the hand correctly? The board is double paired?

Krishan

[Sinnister]

When a weak player bets you are usually in trouble. The reason for playing like this is because there should be a chance that your oppt will fold. When u are playing against someone whop u know plays badly this is obviously the wrong way to go about it. He is there to call not to be bluffed. You should tone it down a bit and after everyone sees the hand history ud better tighten up drastically in the session u pull a stunt like that.

[aflaba]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The same analysis holds true for you having AK, or AJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, it really doesn't. It shouldn't be hard to see why.

GoT

[/ QUOTE ]


Why doesn't it?

You still hope for other aces to fold? The only difference is that the times they call you lose nothing. So it's better.

[TStoneMBD]

checkraise is bad imo...you really need to have a good read that villain will value bet ace high and fold to a checkraise. i dont think you have that.

i dont feel like analyzing it but i thought i would contribute because the opinions of this thread are very onesided. still however, its an excellent hand worth posting, just the discussion is subpar.

[oreogod]

Talked about this on irc. And I never got around to posting my thoughts here. But I have to respectfully disagree w/ the river action. Im a lazy responder...I like doing things in one line sometimes so I will say my thoughts on this have already been shared by others who have already posted here.