Plan on flop?

[ep510]

No read on villian.

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises</font>, <font color="#666666">7 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero 3-bets</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">UTG caps</font>, Hero calls.

Flop: (9 SB) 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero?

[mantasm]

check fold : (

You have 2 outs against anything reasonable.

[Stack]

These are tough to get rid of, but with no reads, you can't show this down.

[Petteri]

I would bet flop and fold if raised.

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
I would bet flop and fold if raised.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure what a flop bet accomplishes.

[27offsooot]

Pretty standard c/f sans read.

[daftdg]

Looks foldalicious (or check/foldalicious as the case may be). If UTG is at all decent, hes representing QQ-AA or AKs, which has you drawing to two outs.

[mister]

considering that AQs is the only hand you're probably ahead of, I think you walk away from this one...

[damaniac]

Yeah, not much to be happy about. You could go crazy and hope he folds QQ, but that'd almost certainly be chip spewage, especially against an unknown. If you had the T /images/graemlins/heart.gif I would strongly consider making a loose flop call. We have backdoor draws and the chance that opponent will have AQ and check behind the turn sometimes ( referencing this interesting piece by NtG (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Board=smallholdem&amp;Number=2288369 &amp;fpart=1&amp;PHPSESSID=) ) giving us more effective outs. But absent that, yeah, folding time.

[Petteri]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I would bet flop and fold if raised.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure what a flop bet accomplishes.

[/ QUOTE ]

If UTG has not connected, he might fold. Pot is 8 SB and it might good idea invest 1 SB to try pick up the pot.

I think betting flop works often enough to make play worthwhile if you have showed strenght preflop. If UTG just calls you have 2 outs.

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
If UTG has not connected, he might fold

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think UTG capper folds often enough for betting this flop to be a viable line at all.

[brettbrettr]

[ QUOTE ]
referencing this interesting piece by NtG (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&amp;Number=2296585&amp;page=&amp;view=&amp;s b=5&amp;o=&amp;vc=1)

[/ QUOTE ]

Those of you who haven't read this should. Notice there are lot of conditions that make the loose peel Damainiac suggests a viable play, so really reread it a few times. As others have said, this is one of the best posts I've ever read on these boards.

[ep510]

Wow, that was a great post by Nate. Thanks for the reference.

This hand and his look nearly identical (even the suits are similar /images/graemlins/smile.gif), except for the fact that villian capped. This narrows the range of hands villian could have, which in turn narrows the so-called "effective" outs given by the times villian will check behind on the turn.

My question is, if the preflop play was identical to Nate's...i.e. I raise utg and villian 3-bets me, does that give me the odds to make a "loose" call on the flop?

[damaniac]

It sort of depends on villain. Is AQ(s or not) a likely capping (or three-betting) hand? And the heart is a big thing too, both because you have a bd flush draw and that if you make a set, you're not going to make villain a flush or give him a redraw to one. It also helps to know that villain will often or sometimes check behind oc's HU instead of always firing the second barrel, but I don't have that in my notes enough (or a large enough sample to deduce that) to figure it out.

On another note, if there's one thing I do well here, it's taking insightful and informative thoughts of others and linking them. When I make Pooh-bah, you're going to see some amazing linkage.