WHAT THE F*** explain this one..????????

[raptor517]

***** Hand History for Game 2184230011 *****
NL Hold'em $1000 Buy-in + $65 Entry Fee Trny:12965495 Level:4 Blinds(50/100) - Friday, June 10, 03:36:31 EDT 2005
Table Step 5 #983602 (Real Money)
Seat 5 is the button
Total number of players : 8
Seat 1: tolumax ( $1005 )
Seat 3: RoJoSox ( $840 )
Seat 4: muckshmuck ( $1490 )
Seat 5: cleo_ ( $410 )
Seat 6: darvken ( $1495 )
Seat 7: Gigabet ( $2135 )
Seat 9: bresh ( $2080 )
Seat 10: Reuben123 ( $545 )
Trny:12965495 Level:4
Blinds(50/100)
** Dealing down cards **
bresh folds.
Reuben123 folds.
tolumax calls [100].
RoJoSox folds.
muckshmuck calls [100].
cleo_ is all-In [410]
darvken folds.
Gigabet is all-In [2035]
tolumax is all-In [905]
muckshmuck folds.
** Dealing Flop ** [ 3c, 5d, Qd ]
** Dealing Turn ** [ Ts ]
** Dealing River ** [ 6s ]
Gigabet shows [ Qh, 3s ] two pairs, queens and threes.
tolumax shows [ Kc, Kh ] a pair of kings.
cleo_ shows [ Qc, Kd ] a pair of queens.
Gigabet wins 1130 chips from side pot #2 with two pairs, queens and threes.
Gigabet wins 1190 chips from side pot #1 with two pairs, queens and threes.
Gigabet wins 1380 chips from the main pot with two pairs, queens and threes.
cleo_ finished in eighth place.
tolumax finished in seventh place.
tolumax has left the table.
cleo_ has left the table.

[SlackerMcFly]

Straight-up defense of the BB? No real danger of busting to anyone in the hand. Tolumax was a surprise caller and the flop was kind to Giga.

Just a noob (but listen to Freemoney's advice in the Beef thead Raptor....) Slacker

[freemoney]

see when i read some hands like adanthars 77 and the comments people made and jcm when he posts 77 hand i feel like i see the game on a whole different level and then an obviously better player makes a play like this and i cant understand it for the life of me, i would love to hear the reasoning. mine is hes getting almost 2-1 open limper is weak tight and BB will only call with a hand like the one he picked up.

[Daliman]

Gig is test-playing a new luckbox. I think he can go ahead and buy it.

[raptor517]

isolation raise, getting ALMOST 3 to 1.. i mean i understand the reasoning behind it, but is it really worth it? to be at best a 60/40, ruin yer table image, and possibly run into a monster limper? apparently it is, but the whole risk/reward thing just seems to be a bit too high risk for a bit too little reward. i dont claim to be world class, but im not sure if i could fall in love with this play. actually, this is the kind of play i COULD fall in love with, but its gonna take a lot of foreplay to get me there. holla

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
Gig is test-playing a new luckbox. I think he can go ahead and buy it.

[/ QUOTE ]

geez, the one that hes gonna get is prolly more than my entire bankroll....and im just talking about the price for a weekend rental.

[Eihli]

risking 310 to win 710, i can see doing that with Q high.

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
ruin yer table image

[/ QUOTE ]

everyone who sat at this table likely knows who he is, and how he plays.

[freemoney]

i misread the hand, i though there was only one limper and the KK was in the BB, ehh it makes me like it less, i dont know how many of the others are regulars but i dont think giga really has the tightest table image

[raptor517]

[ QUOTE ]
risking 310 to win 710, i can see doing that with Q high.

[/ QUOTE ]

ok, geez, think about it. its not like hes calling from the bb to a sb push. he is sliding his whole stack out there with limpers. gig says this is a level one, automatic play. well, its not going to be all that hard to pick up on his push Q high with 2 limper tendencies and maybe, i duno, limp with KK. im not knocking gig at all for this, as he knows what hes doing damn better than i, however, its not NEAR as clear cut as you try to make it sound eihli. holla

[Eihli]

i know it's not clear cut, but how clear cut do you expect it to get without reads? all you can use is numbers.

[raptor517]

yer numbers dont help at ALL in this situation. they would help amazingly well if it was a heads up tournament. unfortunately, there are about 7 players at the table and 2 of them limped and still have action. therefore, you cant simply say that, oh, it costs 310 to win 740, autocall with Q high, ship it. ehot?

[Myst]

I dont know. That looks a lot scarier if that was your first time playing a STEP for $1000 and Gigabet made a raise like that from the blinds. If you arent an astute player, you have to put him on a hand....

Obviously Gigabet f*****d up by not having a correct read on the early position limper. But he makes these kind of moves to get the top end money and 1st place.

[Eihli]

i understand that. but, what else can we consider with the information provided? we don't know how likely it is that the limpers will call. we don't know how they view giga now or how this move will cause them to view and act against giga later. all we know is there is 710 in the pot and if he can get the limpers to fold he'll see a showdown heads up getting 710:310.

[deathpotato]

Tolumax is far from a step 5 newcomer, and gigabet knows this. That said, I have no idea when it comes to the reasoning behind this play, unless tolumax routinely limp/folds off 1/10 of his stack, which I find pretty doubtful.

[Gramps]

The limp UTG+1 from the 1k stack at 50/100 really smells of AA/KK (absent some read of them being a total overlimper). The times you're up against one of those two hands, you're an 8:1 dog with 1k at risk. Seems like a very high price to pay for a small +cev opportunity (the times everyone else folds), unless you think the reckless/overplaying image will help make the others fear your big stack and fold blinds to you later, etc.

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]
The limp UTG+1 from the 1k stack at 50/100 really smells of AA/KK (absent some read of them being a total overlimper). The times you're up against one of those two hands, you're an 8:1 dog with 1k at risk. Seems like a very high price to pay for a small +cev opportunity (the times everyone else folds), unless you think the reckless/overplaying image will help make the others fear your big stack and fold blinds to you later, etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

The image play aspect was the best reason I could come up with for doing this. Perhaps in the future it will allow him to make this move with real hands at that point. I don't know. As others have pointed out, it seems like with Giga's reputation this tendency is pretty highly exploitable.

I often think that in the future, when people post Gigabet related hand histories, they should consider doing so without revealing that the player in question is Giga. I think people spend so much time bending over backwards to find even the smallest of reasons that a play is good when they know it's him, and they might tear it to shreds otherwise.

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]

I often think that in the future, when people post Gigabet related hand histories, they should consider doing so without revealing that the player in question is Giga. I think people spend so much time bending over backwards to find even the smallest of reasons that a play is good when they know it's him, and they might tear it to shreds otherwise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Spot on. He is very creative and manages to win with the worse hand much more often than I do for sure. But of course he makes mistakes.

For example he has managed to go to the final table as chipleader in two straight live tournaments only to bust out very early. Of course it could just be down to bad luck but it could also be indicative of weaknesses in his play (wanting to do too much with big stack, taking hands too far when the actions of the other player should tell him not to etc). That he makes it to the final table as chipleader tells us what we already know. He is excellent working the bubble and exploiting hesitation in his opponents.

[Khern]

I'm eager to see the range of play a known name player is willing to make. Of course, careful interpretation of the play is essential.

-John

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]

I'm eager to see the range of play a known name player is willing to make. Of course, careful interpretation of the play is essential.

[/ QUOTE ]

Plays like the one we're discussing here are impossible to interpret "carefully" with the information we have. We have no reads on the players, which is a vital component of plays like this. We can try and come up with the best possible scenario for making this play, which is not necessarily unproductive, but that doesn't really give a good indicator of whether the play was a good idea or not in this situation. Furthermore, considering the crew of regulars that he faces, it's very difficult to tell how good this play is in isolation anyway, since a large part of the play probably involves future exploitation of an image fueled by this play.

[Khern]

ok, not so much careful specific interpretation, but rather careful consideration before randomly attempting to apply similar moves.

Consideration that might include math, player image, potential opponent tendencies, tournament level, ect...

One way or the other, it's nice to see the range of plays Giga is willing to make.

[durron597]

I think Gigabet here (maybe?) is risking 310 chips to never have his blind stolen again.

[Lady Dont Tekno]

[ QUOTE ]
I think Gigabet here (maybe?) is risking 310 chips to never have his blind stolen again.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed.

Yeah I don't claim to understand the weird things that go on, in higher level SNGs but I think they key here is the short stack. This is an ideal spot for Giga to risk almost nothing to, in the future, make a great play (that will hopefully lead to a 1st) with his image.

-LDT

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]
I think Gigabet here (maybe?) is risking 310 chips to never have his blind stolen again.

[/ QUOTE ]

He isn't risking 310 chips.

Besides, most who he plays against are people who have seen him before. A play like this isn't going to make them totally change their game.

[citanul]

alright, i don't have much to add to this thread except:

goddamn tolumax, do you EVER raise kk or aa?! i mean, i see this post less than 10 hours after sitting there at the table and having to listen to NUTZREALBIG berate him for always limping aces up front. this just simply can't be optimal. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

i'm sure he limps other stuff too, i honestly haven't played that many hands with him, but egads.

citanul

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]
alright, i don't have much to add to this thread except:

goddamn tolumax, do you EVER raise kk or aa?! i mean, i see this post less than 10 hours after sitting there at the table and having to listen to NUTZREALBIG berate him for always limping aces up front. this just simply can't be optimal. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

i'm sure he limps other stuff too, i honestly haven't played that many hands with him, but egads.

citanul

[/ QUOTE ]

If the other players are on autopilot and routinely pushes on limps in level 4+, surely it must be +EV.

[durron597]

Man I wish I was playing in these games so I could limp behind with 55 in the CO.

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
If the other players are on autopilot and routinely pushes on limps in level 4+, surely it must be +EV.

[/ QUOTE ]

if only my life were such that i could just go jumping into $1k buyin games and going on "autopilot" knowing that it's likely a losing proposition.

citanul

[kamrann]

I'm not totally sure I like/understand this move either. I can though see the point about it possibly giving him some walks on his blinds later on. One other thing that hasn't been mentioned which may be relevant though: in terms of CEV it's marginal, but maybe for him the $EV is much greater. Assuming limpers fold, if he loses to the short stack he is still healthy with T1725. If he wins he is up to T2545, now more comfortably chip leader going into level 5. He may feel this small chip difference represents a big equity difference due to an increased ability to bully and steal.

Yesterday for instance I won one hand which moved me into a very small chip lead. This allowed me to push on the 2nd stacks BB in the following hand (we were on the bubble with one very short stack), and from there I was in a position from which I was able to allin-steal my way up to 8500 chips. Sure this was in a $50+5 and is a much more extreme situation, but it just demonstrates how sometimes a small chip difference can be worth a huge amount to your actual tournament equity.

I don't know if this was part of his thinking - just throwing it out there.

[DonCaspero]

Given the stacksize of UTG and his style, his limp pretty much makes me give up the hand. Against a known big hand EP limper there is a big chance he is looking for a showdown, and i'm not doubling him up with a gay waiter!

[poindexter]

Come on guys, you all need to accept the fact that very good players make very bad plays sometimes. Gigabet made a bad read and even if his read were correct he would still have to beat a better hand with Q-3o. He is a big dog 70-30 to any pocket pair above 22 and also a big dog to any hand with a Q in it. against A or K high type hands his advantage is very slight to nothing. If your looking to justify a play here look at the play toulamax made. Toulamax’s read was spot on that limping with KK would get action from an over aggressive big stack.

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I often think that in the future, when people post Gigabet related hand histories, they should consider doing so without revealing that the player in question is Giga. I think people spend so much time bending over backwards to find even the smallest of reasons that a play is good when they know it's him, and they might tear it to shreds otherwise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Spot on. He is very creative and manages to win with the worse hand much more often than I do for sure. But of course he makes mistakes.

For example he has managed to go to the final table as chipleader in two straight live tournaments only to bust out very early. Of course it could just be down to bad luck but it could also be indicative of weaknesses in his play (wanting to do too much with big stack, taking hands too far when the actions of the other player should tell him not to etc). That he makes it to the final table as chipleader tells us what we already know. He is excellent working the bubble and exploiting hesitation in his opponents.

[/ QUOTE ]

As far as busting out "very early", 3rd is not "very early", and 7th isn't really either.

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
Come on guys, you all need to accept the fact that very good players make very bad plays sometimes. Gigabet made a bad read and even if his read were correct he would still have to beat a better hand with Q-3o. He is a big dog 70-30 to any pocket pair above 22 and also a big dog to any hand with a Q in it. against A or K high type hands his advantage is very slight to nothing. If your looking to justify a play here look at the play toulamax made. Toulamax’s read was spot on that limping with KK would get action from an over aggressive big stack.

[/ QUOTE ]

Reading in further, I think there is a very real chance that Gig KNEW Tolumax might be big, but was hoping maybe AK, because he DOES make spite plays all the time. Good for his "Don't F with me" image.

[rohjoh]

I was watching this one, and did not understand it either. My thoughts are that Giga is an extreme luckbox and knew he would suck out on his opponents, just like he did on the bubble to Rojosox.

5 handed blinds like 100-200, or something, and Rojosox, who had played like 1 hand, pushes Giga's BB from the SB. Rojo has about 850 chips, and Giga insta calls with 4-2 off. Rojo flips over AQ, and Giga proceeds to spike a 4.

I do not think it was a bad call, he had the chips to make the call, like 5K, but man is he a luckbox. And again he is sending a clear message that he will call any attempt at stealing his blinds.

Raptor, I went to bed after Rojosox got knocked out, did Gigbet end up winning this?

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I often think that in the future, when people post Gigabet related hand histories, they should consider doing so without revealing that the player in question is Giga. I think people spend so much time bending over backwards to find even the smallest of reasons that a play is good when they know it's him, and they might tear it to shreds otherwise.

[/ QUOTE ]

Spot on. He is very creative and manages to win with the worse hand much more often than I do for sure. But of course he makes mistakes.

For example he has managed to go to the final table as chipleader in two straight live tournaments only to bust out very early. Of course it could just be down to bad luck but it could also be indicative of weaknesses in his play (wanting to do too much with big stack, taking hands too far when the actions of the other player should tell him not to etc). That he makes it to the final table as chipleader tells us what we already know. He is excellent working the bubble and exploiting hesitation in his opponents.

[/ QUOTE ]

As far as busting out "very early", 3rd is not "very early", and 7th isn't really either.

[/ QUOTE ]

The 3rd is ok, but 7th out of 8 when you go in as chipleader is definately very early.

Anyway, this discussion is useless since some people feel he makes a great play no matter how much a dog he ends up as or how much his read is off.

Read what NUTZREALBIG said about this specific player and his limps. It is possible that Gigabet didn't know this about this player. Then it is just a result of not enough hands against this guy. If he did know this player limps with monsters with less than 10xBB this play is downright poor.

[The Yugoslavian]

I dunno...this whole play is extremely read dependant on tolumax. I have no knowledge of this player (and not sure many others do) so....meh.

Also, I bet Giga doesn't mind losing the 1k chips as much as most people might think if it is one of the (hopefully rare times) tolumax is limping a monster....obviously Giga can't make this play if tolumax only limps monsters on level 4 here.

Also, he almost surely had a feeling that he'd pair up both of his cards on this hand. He's omniscient you know, /images/graemlins/grin.gif.

Yugoslav

[DonButtons]

[ QUOTE ]
I was watching this one, and did not understand it either. My thoughts are that Giga is an extreme luckbox and knew he would suck out on his opponents, just like he did on the bubble to Rojosox.

5 handed blinds like 100-200, or something, and Rojosox, who had played like 1 hand, pushes Giga's BB from the SB. Rojo has about 850 chips, and Giga insta calls with 4-2 off. Rojo flips over AQ, and Giga proceeds to spike a 4.

I do not think it was a bad call, he had the chips to make the call, like 5K, but man is he a luckbox. And again he is sending a clear message that he will call any attempt at stealing his blinds.

Raptor, I went to bed after Rojosox got knocked out, did Gigbet end up winning this?

[/ QUOTE ]
Ugh, you clearly didnt catch the action as it happened, because Gigabet pushed from the button with 2-4o and rojo called on the bb with A9o and giga hit a 4.

[dhende3]

alcohol

[rohjoh]

I had 4 other tables going, I will look at the HH again, but do not think he pushed from the button, because ROJOSOX had two players between him and GIGA. A9 could be right, and he definitely hit his 4.

[raptor517]

[ QUOTE ]
I had 4 other tables going, I will look at the HH again, but do not think he pushed from the button, because ROJOSOX had two players between him and GIGA. A9 could be right, and he definitely hit his 4.

[/ QUOTE ]

gig pushed from the button, rojosox autocalled from the bb with A9o. thats how it played out. holla

[maddog2030]

[ QUOTE ]
Also, I bet Giga doesn't mind losing the 1k chips as much as most people might think if it is one of the (hopefully rare times) tolumax is limping a monster....obviously Giga can't make this play if tolumax only limps monsters on level 4 here.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hopefully Giga might post so as to end all the speculation...

But if I had to guess what's going through that guy's mind: I think what you said is the key here. The chips he loses in this situation aren't worth as much as the chips he gains. Right now he's sitting on a nice pretty stack of 2000 chips, but what's he going to do with that when there's another 2000 stack directly on his left? It can hamper a lot of his bullying.

What's the solution? Take a risk to create a good sized chip gap between him and the stack to his left. If he wins, he can get ready to turn the burners on and steal like a madman. The guy to his left will figure Giga for a lunatic and isn't going to risk all his precious equity getting tangled up in a hand with the only bigger stack at the table.

Now if Giga loses the hand (which is most of the time and he knows this), he's lost a good deal of equity but is still well in the running. I don't think he's really losing too many stealing positions than he had with the 2000 stack.

But in the end, I really have no idea what I'm talking about.

[SuitedSixes]

[ QUOTE ]
Hopefully Giga might post so as to end all the speculation..

[/ QUOTE ]

Raptor, I just got off the phone with Gig. It was a misclick. He meant to fold. He's sorry for all the torment that he caused.

[Daliman]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hopefully Giga might post so as to end all the speculation..

[/ QUOTE ]

Raptor, I just got off the phone with Gig. It was a misclick. He meant to fold. He's sorry for all the torment that he caused.

[/ QUOTE ]

ROFL. This is actually possible. There goes all the speculation of 5th level thinking and such...

[maddog2030]

[ QUOTE ]
Raptor, I just got off the phone with Gig. It was a misclick. He meant to fold. He's sorry for all the torment that he caused.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now I can sleep at night.

[SuitedSixes]

[ QUOTE ]
Now I can sleep at night.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm just trying to give a little something back to the people.

[DonButtons]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Raptor, I just got off the phone with Gig. It was a misclick. He meant to fold. He's sorry for all the torment that he caused.

[/ QUOTE ]

Now I can sleep at night.

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif lmao

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hopefully Giga might post so as to end all the speculation..

[/ QUOTE ]

Raptor, I just got off the phone with Gig. It was a misclick. He meant to fold. He's sorry for all the torment that he caused.

[/ QUOTE ]

It wouldn't be the first time he's done this.....*twice* when I've been watching him play online he's claimed to have made a misclick...one was obviously a misclick or perhaps a misread of his hand or the board and the other could have been just the strangest play I've ever seen....so there is a small chance he didn't misclick on the 2nd one and simply didn't want to give away a very obscure secret.

Yugoslav

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Now I can sleep at night.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm just trying to give a little something back to the people.

[/ QUOTE ]

good to see you're winning again brian /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[The Yugoslavian]

Well...yes...Giga clearly (or perhaps not so clearly) has his own ideas about how he places value to chunks of chips...it is not linear...and it is not according to ICM or even tournament equity models at all sometimes (for instance, sometimes a 3k chip stack could be worth more to him than 1.5x a 2k stack...which is somewhat at odds of what general models indicate). How he places value on chunks of his chips (notice I keep saying chunks... /images/graemlins/grin.gif) also seems to be highly contextual and player/table dependent.

It sucks b/c you can't just 'play like Giga'.....even if you ask him for advice in a theoretical situation I'm almost sure he'll just tell you to do whatever the 'ABC' move is....however, you'll see plenty of times where he will do the exact opposite in practice, /images/graemlins/confused.gif.

It's not that he doesn't know how to play ABC poker, it's that he knows exactly when he can/should deviate. Imsolucky knows what I'm talkin' about /images/graemlins/wink.gif.

Yugoslav

[SuitedSixes]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hopefully Giga might post so as to end all the speculation..

[/ QUOTE ]

Raptor, I just got off the phone with Gig. It was a misclick. He meant to fold. He's sorry for all the torment that he caused.

[/ QUOTE ]

It wouldn't be the first time he's done this.....*twice* when I've been watching him play online he's claimed to have made a misclick...one was obviously a misclick or perhaps a misread of his hand or the board and the other could have been just the strangest play I've ever seen....so there is a small chance he didn't misclick on the 2nd one and simply didn't want to give away a very obscure secret.

Yugoslav

[/ QUOTE ]

What are you, the humor vaccuum?

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hopefully Giga might post so as to end all the speculation..

[/ QUOTE ]

Raptor, I just got off the phone with Gig. It was a misclick. He meant to fold. He's sorry for all the torment that he caused.

[/ QUOTE ]

It wouldn't be the first time he's done this.....*twice* when I've been watching him play online he's claimed to have made a misclick...one was obviously a misclick or perhaps a misread of his hand or the board and the other could have been just the strangest play I've ever seen....so there is a small chance he didn't misclick on the 2nd one and simply didn't want to give away a very obscure secret.

Yugoslav

[/ QUOTE ]

What are you, the humor vaccuum?

[/ QUOTE ]

Jeebus....your comment right there just had me making a fool of myself at work...laughing all over the place, unable to explain what was so funny.

Damn you!!!!!!!!!!

Now why the @#%$@#! weren't you crackin' these jokes last weekend? hunh? EHOT?!?!?!

I mean, I was even making myself like the biggest target in the world....talking about wanting Giga to sign my breasts....putting SkipperBob's drink umbrella in my ear....making my sleeping arrangements with TheUsher and GreekHouse public....bah!!!

Yugoslav

[maddog2030]

I think it mostly just comes from experience. When you've been in those situations so many times before and you know how to wield a big stack with calculated precision to acquire a lot chips at low risk, it probably becomes painfully obvious to you how important it is to get to that big stack, and how little consequence it is if you have 1500 chips or 2000 chips, or whatever else is in the middle range.

People might say they know these things, but it seems like Giga puts it to use and actually capitalizes on this idea better than most.

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
I think it mostly just comes from experience. When you've been in those situations so many times before and you know how to wield a big stack with calculated precision to acquire a lot chips at low risk, it probably becomes painfully obvious to you how important it is to get to that big stack, and how little consequence it is if you have 1500 chips or 2000 chips, or whatever else is in the middle range.

People might say they know these things, but it seems like Giga puts it to use and actually capitalizes on this idea better than most.

[/ QUOTE ]

It isn't just weilding a big stack (see strassa's recent thread about just how confident *he* is with a big stack)...Giga understands and utlizes many unorthodox concepts when he plays....some I'm sure are ridiculously creative. I didn't realize how much so until hearing him discuss several hands in person...to have the confidence to make some of the moves he does is crazy. I remember the first time I pushed something like 23o into the blinds in a STT...what he is capable of doing is like a bajillion times more ambitious and frightening.

Yugoslav

[curtains]

Misclick? You cant misclick an allin....

[momo24]

[ QUOTE ]
Raptor, I just got off the phone with Gig. It was a misclick. He meant to fold. He's sorry for all the torment that he caused.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess I'm skeptical about how this could be a misclick. He reraised all in. Doesn't that mean he'd have to move the scroll bar all the way to the right and then click raise? I can see a call or minraise being a misclick because it could be accomplished by simply clicking the wrong button, but an all in? Am I missing something?

[momo24]

[ QUOTE ]

Misclick? You cant misclick an allin....

[/ QUOTE ]

Your post was only first because you didn't write as much. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[augie00]

[ QUOTE ]

Misclick? You cant misclick an allin....

[/ QUOTE ]

Glad I'm not the only one who thought of this.

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]

Misclick? You cant misclick an allin....

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course it wasn't.

I hope you don't think that's what I was saying (or thinking) in my non-joke response to Suited's joke...

Yugoslav

[DeathbySuckout]

Here's what I see in this hand, and probably a lot of hands Gigabet plays, that we would never think of getting involved in.
I remember a post he made (I think it was in his Step Higher 5 HH thread) that reminded me of this kind of play. I don't rmember exactly how he put it, but what I got from it was, Gigabet knows how many chips he needs to keep up with the field and stay in the game. Sometimes he uses any chips he has above this amount to play marginal, or what we see as unorthodox situations. He can aford to lose these chips and still be in the running to finish the tourney. But in the right situation, and maybe more than we realize, these situations are +EV with good reads. I don't think he expected Tolumax to call with kings. BUT, just in case he did, He's not losing too many chips to kill his chance at coming back. AND, I think the "Don't F with my BB" had a lot to do with it also.

[maddog2030]

I agree. Some of the stuff I've heard of him doing is pretty ridiculous sometimes, and I only read what people post of him around here. The best part is, to the untrained eye, his most sophisticated moves look like a braindead chimp is pounding on a computer keyboard.

But, in any event, my comment was directed at the situation given by raptor. I'm sure Giga has plenty more tricks in his bag than just wielding a bigstack.

[PrayingMantis]

[ QUOTE ]
Misclick? You cant misclick an allin....

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, too much multitabling while being too tired, I've manged to "misclick" all-in. I think everything is possible while heavily multitabling.

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Misclick? You cant misclick an allin....

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, too much multitabling while being too tired, I've manged to "misclick" all-in. I think everything is possible while heavily multitabling.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nice avatar, /images/graemlins/grin.gif.

Yugoslav
Who knows that this forum misses you, btw...

[PrayingMantis]

[ QUOTE ]
this forum misses you, btw...

[/ QUOTE ]

This is nice, well, I'm working on a dramatic comeback. Until then I enjoy lurking from time to time. It's good to see things from afar, for a while, maybe a long while. Thinking about things without the need to argue about them so much. And of course, playing other kinds and formats of poker. It's an interesting game. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[The Yugoslavian]

Someday, I too, hope to graduate from the 'Kindergarten of poker,' /images/graemlins/wink.gif.

Yugoslav

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
Someday, I too, hope to graduate from the 'Kindergarten of poker,' /images/graemlins/wink.gif.

Yugoslav

[/ QUOTE ]

or maybe just plain stop acting like a kindergartener /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Someday, I too, hope to graduate from the 'Kindergarten of poker,' /images/graemlins/wink.gif.

Yugoslav

[/ QUOTE ]

or maybe just plain stop acting like a kindergartener /images/graemlins/blush.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm pretty sure only a handful of posters got my reference, but it's nice to know I act the part, /images/graemlins/grin.gif

The Shadow would most likely be one of the only new posters from the past few months who would get the reference as it is.

Yugoslav

[PrayingMantis]

[ QUOTE ]
Someday, I too, hope to graduate from the 'Kindergarten of poker,'

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually don't think that SNGs are less challenging than other formats (some people do think so, you know who I'm talking about, at least one of them). It's all a question of how seriously you treat the game. There are martial arts in which there are hundreds and hundreds of forms (kata), and others in which you only find a few. However, when you take a closer look at the differences, you realize that the amount of energy and perfection that people put into those few kata, is equivalent to the amount that others put in the much more many kata of other arts. So thinking simply in terms of "complexity" can be very misleading, but that's exactly why it looks as if SNGs are more simple, "a basic kind of poker".

[SuitedSixes]

[ QUOTE ]

Misclick? You cant misclick an allin....

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you calling Gigabet a liar?

[johnnybeef]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Someday, I too, hope to graduate from the 'Kindergarten of poker,'

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually don't think that SNGs are less challenging than other formats (some people do think so, you know who I'm talking about, at least one of them). It's all a question of how seriously you treat the game. There are martial arts in which there are hundreds and hundreds of forms (kata), and others in which you only find a few. However, when you take a closer look at the differences, you realize that the amount of energy and perfection that people put into those few kata, is equivalent to the amount that others put in the much more many kata of other arts. So thinking simply in terms of "complexity" can be very misleading, but that's exactly why it looks as if SNGs are more simple, "a basic kind of poker".

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this might be one of the best posts I've seen in a little while....as a former engineering student, I had a great love for physics. I can probably attribute this to my high school physics teacher who was simply an amazing man (retired naval submarine captain who taught for fun). He taught us that in physics there are many problems which can be solved in a sort of quick fix way, however, if you look at a problem in a broad perspective (and fully understand the problem) you will never forget how to do it come crunch time (as opposed to plugging and chugging a formula). In my opinion, Sngs are one of these quick fix problems that lie within the poker world. If you understand why each action is correct from a broad poker perspective, you will become a much better player in general.

[DonButtons]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Misclick? You cant misclick an allin....

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you calling Gigabet a liar?

[/ QUOTE ]

lol, giga saw this post, and didnt even want to comment I bet

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]

I think this might be one of the best posts I've seen in a little while....

[/ QUOTE ]

That's b/c PM is the f*ckin' man, man. This is *exactly* the reason no0b posters need to use the search function...many of the best (and original) STT strategists don't post here much anymore....everyone is currently stuck with dumb trip reports, gay pinko-[censored] commie bashing, and everyone bowing down to that super donkey Gigabet.

The most interesting recent stuff (IMHO) has been the very minor post-flop renassaince and the SNG analyzer study (which is just an extension of preliminary discussions Eastbay and Bozeman were having anyway back in the day)...

That and the PVS becoming the new stop n go (tactic misapplied and misunderstood by like 99% of posters)...

Yugoslav

[the shadow]

Hey, if we can get PM back posting, maybe William will be next.

The Shadow

[The Yugoslavian]

[ QUOTE ]
Hey, if we can get PM back posting, maybe William will be next.

The Shadow

[/ QUOTE ]

William did for like 4 days a month ago or something....

But all he'd really do is have it out with citanul methinks....

So yes! We definitely need William back!

Bwahahahhahaah!

Yugoslav

[Moonsugar]

Grab some aspirin, raptor... (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=2610564&page=0&view=colla psed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1&vc=1&PHPSESSID=)

[Nick M]

i don't think there is anything wrong with this play. I rutinely take a little risk IE -1/4 of my stack to...

1. try and bust somebody
2. try and get my stack to cover everyone elses
3. remind everyone not to steal my blind

plus there is a lot of chips already out there.

I think most people are concerned with the hands that he ran into and the result. He pushed and THEN ran into Kings. This should have nothing to do with the play. The result never creates the right play or the wrong play, the action does.