KQ 8/16

[Vehn]

$8/$16 9 handed. I open raise 2UTG with http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/vehn23/kd.jpghttp://img.ranchoweb.com/images/vehn23/qh.jpg. LP, a loose aggressive regular, calls and the BB calls.

Flop:

http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/vehn23/qd.jpghttp://img.ranchoweb.com/images/vehn23/tc.jpghttp://img.ranchoweb.com/images/vehn23/5s.jpg

BB checks, I bet, LP raises, BB folds and I call.

Turn:

http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/vehn23/qd.jpghttp://img.ranchoweb.com/images/vehn23/tc.jpghttp://img.ranchoweb.com/images/vehn23/5s.jpg http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/vehn23/6s.jpg

I check, LP bets, I raise, and he calls.

River:

http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/vehn23/qd.jpghttp://img.ranchoweb.com/images/vehn23/tc.jpghttp://img.ranchoweb.com/images/vehn23/5s.jpghttp://img.ranchoweb.com/images/vehn23/6s.jpg http://img.ranchoweb.com/images/vehn23/ac.jpg

I bet, LP raises, and I fold. Comments? I think I screwed this up somewhere but I don't know where.

[PokerPrince]

I don't see any problem with the way you played this hand. What do you think you did incorrectly?

PokerPrince

[Wingnut]

The only thing I find curious is folding on the river getting 12.5:1 (if my calculations are correct). If I didn't like my hand anymore, I'd be more inclined to check-fold or check-call.

[pudley4]

It's a tough laydown to make, but I can't see any hand he has that you beat. I think he has KJ (maybe KsJs), AT, or AQ. Less likely is AA, KK, QQ, or TT (I think he'd reraise the turn with these hands). Maybe a very small chance he has KQ.

[Vehn]

I don't see any problem with the way you played this hand. What do you think you did incorrectly?

Lost it? hah. I dunno, it bugged me. One of those sessions where you wind up losing 10 BB but you can't figure out why. /forums/images/icons/wink.gif Well that's poker.

[J.R.]

Why bet the river? The LAG called the turn check-raise, so he probably isn't folding the river but if truly an LAG will probably bet the river if you check, so you don't get raised, get a bet in on the river and make it to the showdown. If he were a typical player I might put him on on an open ended straight draw with KJ or AsTs, two hands that I don't want to bet into on the river.

I can't figure out if I like the turn check-raise, although I think it is probably a good move. Would he call preflop with QT or not raise with AQ?

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

I think reraising the flop may give you a clearer idea of where he is. If he caps, you can probably get away from the hand on the turn. If not you can check-call through. Either way you save a couple of bets and maybe even win.

[J.R.]

If the LAG does not cap, why check-call when a blank (6 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif ) falls on the turn?

[Ed Miller]

He still liked his hand on the river... until he got raised. He has to bet the river here... checking is not really an option.

[Ed Miller]

I think reraising the flop may give you a clearer idea of where he is. If he caps, you can probably get away from the hand on the turn. If not you can check-call through.

This is simply way too passive. You can't play top pair/strong kicker this way against aggressive players and be a winner...

[J.R.]

Why is checking not an option if an LAG will bet all the hands that beat KQ and many hands that are behind KQ if checked to?

[Ulysses]

He has to bet the river here

I disagree. I think he played the hand fine until the river, where I don't think he should bet if he's going to fold to a raise. In many cases I'll 3-bet the flop, though I think a good case can be made either way there.

I suspect that KJ is the most likely and ATs also is reasonable. LAG could even have QT.

However, LAGs could also be making a move at the river with something like QJs.

I just don't see many hands LAG will call with that Vehn can beat and I don't want to let him push me off the best hand. That's why I check-call this river. If LAG missed or has a queen you beat, he's very likely to bet.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

I would normally agree. In this case, though, I don't see forcing the LAG off a better hand. I consider myself a fairly aggressive player, but here, I'm not going to repeat the betting pattern of the flop. When the blank hits, I think, "how will this make him play differently. It won't. From Vehn's description, this LAG will fold a hand I can beat, but not fold a hand that he thinks can beat me. What does he think I have. The pot's big enough that I'm happy to pay 2 more big bets to show it down, but no more.

[Ed Miller]

You were talking about mucking if 4-bet on the flop. I think that is a big mistake.

[Kurn, son of Mogh]

Maybe I wasn't clear on that. What I meant was that he should three-bet the flop and call if it's capped. At that point, it's easier to release the hand if the turn card doesn't help him. The harder decision comes if the LAG doesn't cap the flop.

[Ed Miller]

You were clear. Check-folding the turn just because an agressive player caps the flop is too weak-tight if you have top pair/strong kicker. He could easily be capping the flop on as little as a straight draw.