PP NL100 KK against a tightie

[KowCiller]

Alright, so another KK hand. Here goes.

This time, the Villain is a tightie to the tune of 9% VPIP and 4% PFR over 300 hands.

I haven't seen him do much so far. Please critique my play and let me know your action on the river.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (10 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

CO ($155.8)
Hero ($104.35)
SB ($232.05)
BB ($97)
UTG ($27.85)
UTG+1 ($96)
UTG+2 ($43.65)
MP1 ($190.95)
Villain ($106.05)
MP3 ($102.35)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
UTG calls $1, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Villain raises to $3</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, CO calls $3, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $10</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, UTG folds, Villain calls $7, CO folds.

Flop: ($25.50) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Villain checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $12</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Villain raises to $24</font>, Hero calls $12.

Turn: ($73.50) 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Villain bets $20</font>, Hero calls $20.

River: ($113.50) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Villain instantly bets $52.05 (All-In)</font>, Hero ??

What's the move this time?

KoW

[Maulik]

it almost feels like AQ to me here. and I'd call that. The raise which doubled from $12 to $24 smelled of him prying for information cheaply, not that of a set. Because he opened for a raise preflop.

[soah]

I don't see how this guy can be checkingraising the flop with anything you beat.

[-Google-]

Respect his raise, put him on more than a pair (Id say QQQ), and muck the hand.

You will have better opportunities in other hands.

EDIT: This is given that he is very tight. A loose cannon I may call.

-Google-

[Irishfly]

I don't see a tightie (4%PFR) raising with AQ or calling a reraise with it preflop. I also don't see AQ check-raising that flop unless he has seen you make alot of continuation bets lately. Did he hesitate with the check-raise or was it instant like he planned it? (in other words, did he decide you were bluffing after thinking about it or was he waiting on the edge of his computer chair waiting for a chance to baby bump ya?) If we can peg him as a tight player then we would probably be able to remove AQ from his possibles.

What does that leave us with? Tightwad isn't going to raise preflop with 88 or 55. He would with QQ and AA or maybe JJ and he is over his head and trying to make you lay it down (distant possibility). I am putting him on QQ with the PFR, not reraising your PFR (as he MIGHT with AA), bumping a little to get you pot committed on the flop, not worried about protecting anything with his mediocre turn bet, pushing when he fills up on the river. Seems like an easy read based on the information you gave us. I just can't see him playing this fast with any hand that you beat. Now do I make that read when I only have 15 seconds to decide? Nope, I call with my Kings and buy back in. A more disciplined player than myself would easily lay down overpair with this much action from a tight player.

Da Fly

PS- I could be completely wrong.

[KowCiller]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't see a tightie (4%PFR) raising with AQ or calling a reraise with it preflop. I also don't see AQ check-raising that flop unless he has seen you make alot of continuation bets lately. Did he hesitate with the check-raise or was it instant like he planned it? (in other words, did he decide you were bluffing after thinking about it or was he waiting on the edge of his computer chair waiting for a chance to baby bump ya?) If we can peg him as a tight player then we would probably be able to remove AQ from his possibles.

What does that leave us with? Tightwad isn't going to raise preflop with 88 or 55. He would with QQ and AA or maybe JJ and he is over his head and trying to make you lay it down (distant possibility). I am putting him on QQ with the PFR, not reraising your PFR (as he MIGHT with AA), bumping a little to get you pot committed on the flop, not worried about protecting anything with his mediocre turn bet, pushing when he fills up on the river. Seems like an easy read based on the information you gave us. I just can't see him playing this fast with any hand that you beat.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ya this is the exact thought process I went through.... by the time the river got there /images/graemlins/mad.gif

I'm kinda pissed at myself that I couldn't figure all that out by the time the flop check raise got there. At the time, the check min raise seemed like a feeler to see if I had AK. Of course, I convinced myself at the time that's why I should call. Then when he underbets the turn, I felt almost obligated to call. After the river push the pea-brain finally processed all the stuff you basically described, then I realized I had better muck. (so I did, obviously)

I think this is an example of the biggest leak in my game and I made this post to both "punish" myself and hopefully make others aware that it could be a problem in their game too. Anyone else find themselves going through this during a hand?

KoW

[embersonfire]

My gut instinct says QQQ88

[Leaky Game]

I often go through the 'no way could he have hit the set'. My problem is it often starts out as, this f'in donk is check raising me with AQ....he's betting out into me with a small 1/4 sized bet, now I'll smooth call...flop...oh $#^$.

My problem is, half the time I call because I think these guys are full of crap. Especially on Party...problem is, once in a while I'm right, so it keeps me at it. I'm an ass...a leaky one at that.

I feel your pain, thanks for the post.

[MarkL444]

im assuming by his tightness that he has a low WTSD%, correct?? did you consider min raising the turn?

[xorbie]

Fold on the flop.

[edge]

Looks like he has QQ. Why such a small bet on the flop?

A prudent player would lay it down to the flop checkraise. I don't know if I could do it, but it's the right play.

[fuzzbox]

Ugh - a check-minraise of a preflop reraiser on a Q-high flop !!!

He has AA/KK/QQ/88 with the favourite being QQ (given his propensity to make really nice small easy-to-call bets.

fold the river, fold the turn, and vomit at the check-raise on the flop and try desperately to bring yourself to fold (but at least fold the turn).

[dibbs]

This guy squeaks. I really can't imagine this guy calling a reraise and then playing AQ like this on the flop. Nitty maybe, but against him I can't picture what hand you beat. QQ or AA I think.

BTW, you have no idea how mesmorizing and entertaining your avatar is when totally wasted, well, maybe you do.

[pokerman5000]

seems to me you are getting played by a bigger hand. looks like he has qq,aa, or kk also.

its hard to imagine him with AQ.
the critical decision was to fold after he check raised you. with this flop, a check raise indicates strength. this guys stats are of a good player. it would be a pretty difficult laydown though.

just be glad he didn't take the lead on the flop. you'd probably lose some more money.

[dbitel]

I've been seeing the check min-riase quite a bit on party poker when some1 has hit a monster. It's usually NOT an information bet (especially from tight players). I honestly can't look past QQ for his hand. The preblem is, your hand is just such a tough one to lay down. You could have lost it on the flop, but you have to muck it on the turn when you realise your entire stack is going in by the river.

[KC50]

[ QUOTE ]
I often go through the 'no way could he have hit the set'. My problem is it often starts out as, this f'in donk is check raising me with AQ....he's betting out into me with a small 1/4 sized bet, now I'll smooth call...flop...oh $#^

My problem is, half the time I call because I think these guys are full of crap. Especially on Party...



KowKiller let us know from the get go that he has Poker Tracker and obviously you didn't pick up in that.

When Villian (with the stats given) cr the flop is where I wouldv'e got the F out of D. Given his stats it appears he is not afraid of AQ or even KK. It appears he has at least AA but most likely QQ. Again given his stats this type would probably not just smooth call Hero's re-raise preflop with AA.

KC