BB defense with middle pair. About the Schneids line

[goingbroke]

Lets say you have T9o and call a open raise from the button. The flop is Kc9h3h. Many people check-raise here, Schneids recommends calling then homosexually betting on the turn, now I ask.
Is the intention of the turn bet(online) make people raise with nothing given the aggro nature of the games or also make them fold their overs?
But what if a overcard cames on the turn, do you stick to the plan?In which circumstances you give up trying to get it to showdown?

[highlife]

[ QUOTE ]
Lets say you have T9o and call a open raise from the button. The flop is Kc9h3h. Many people check-raise here, Schneids recommends calling then homosexually betting on the turn, now I ask.
Is the intention of the turn bet(online) make people raise with nothing given the aggro nature of the games or also make them fold their overs?
But what if a overcard cames on the turn, do you stick to the plan?In which circumstances you give up trying to get it to showdown?

[/ QUOTE ]

in a mid stakes game in this situation, the turn gay bet has a nice effect...

1 - It makes the initial raiser suspicious of a steal, causing him to call or even raise with a worse hand.
2 - Another way to put this is that it prevents him from getting a free river if by any chance he would decide to check behind.
3 - Even if he raises you light after the gaybet, he still may check behind on the river, sensing a trap.

[daryn]

so when he raises with a king you guys call turn and river?

[highlife]

[ QUOTE ]
so when he raises with a king you guys call turn and river?

[/ QUOTE ]

nope, when he raises with a king i fold the turn.

[daryn]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In risposta di:</font><hr />
</font><blockquote><font class="small">In risposta di:</font><hr />
so when he raises with a king you guys call turn and river?

[/ QUOTE ]

nope, when he raises with a king i fold the turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In risposta di:</font><hr />

1 - It makes the initial raiser suspicious of a steal, causing him to call or even raise with a worse hand.

[/ QUOTE ]


so when he raises with a worse hand you fold to it? wow... and that's your NUMBER 1 REASON for making the play? to get him to blow you away with worse?

what if he calls, bet the river? check/call?

[daryn]

also i'm in favor of renaming "donkbet" to "fishbet"

[Schneids]

Daryn you call the turn raise and then play poker on the river.

[Schneids]

And yes people often raise with worse or nothing. Even people as passive and weak tight as Bruiser did last night against me. I called the turn. He checked through the river. You know your opponents and know how often they will follow through on the river with a bluff. Sometimes you pay off and feel like a clown but it's poker if you are playing short handed and don't feel like a clown sometimes you're doing something wrong.

[bicyclekick]

[ QUOTE ]
Sometimes you pay off and feel like a clown but it's poker if you are playing short handed and don't feel like a clown sometimes you're doing something wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ouh...In that case...you must think I'm the best SH player ever. :P

[bobbyi]

[ QUOTE ]
You know your opponents and know how often they will follow through on the river with a bluff.

[/ QUOTE ]
Does this mean that you wouldn't use this line against an opponent whose tendencies you don't know?

[kurosh]

I'm going to showdown nearly 100% of the time here. I like to mix it up. Sometimes I'll CR flop and lead. Sometimes I'll call flop and lead. Sometimes I'll CR turn. Sometimes I'll CR flop, CR turn. Sometimes I'll CR flop, call turn. It doesn't make much difference.

[J.A.Sucker]

Why would you just call the flop and bet the turn as opposed to checkraising the flop and betting the turn out? I really don't understand this thinking.

FWIW, it's better to just c/r this flop or to get the flop out yourself if your opponent is good enough to check behind sometimes.

[theBruiser500]

9T is probably behind but because the pot is big it has to put some bets into the pot to see what's up. the cheapest way to see what's up is to call flop and lead turn and fold to a raise.

[J.A.Sucker]

Why are we behind here? You're kidding, right? This is a steal from the button and there's a K on the board. Who cares. I'm not folding this hand in this situation barring something really extraordinary. If you fold these hands to the action that is described here, then you'll lose all your money at higher limits. Forget tip-toeing around in these situations. Play big pots and make them make decisions both on this hand and in future ones.

[theBruiser500]

well i was thinking about a situation like this one except where there is a 3rd player in the pot, like button raises, you call in sb, bb calls, T9 on that K9x flop. then there is a good chance someone has a king, people play lots of hands there with kings plus calling also gets more information, get to see what BB does first.

[Nigel]

I'm with you here. But along these lines, against an unknown stealer are you showing down 100%?

If he calls your checkraise and raises turn vs. 3 betting flop and betting turn and river does that change things?

Nigel

[NLSoldier]

[ QUOTE ]
Why would you just call the flop and bet the turn as opposed to checkraising the flop and betting the turn out? I really don't understand this thinking.

FWIW, it's better to just c/r this flop or to get the flop out yourself if your opponent is good enough to check behind sometimes.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think one good reason for this line as opposed to CRing the flop is because it looks so donkish that you will often get raised by worse hands on the turn. Whereas if you CR the flop and lead the turn, they will get away from no pair hands easier and you will lose more when they do have a King and now pop you on the turn. When I take the check/call/bet line I am pretty much never folding.

[J.A.Sucker]

I'm not folding on the turn. Let him go ahead and raise me. I may call, I may reraise, but folding ain't in my gameplan for this hand.

[J.A.Sucker]

The higher a the limit, the closer to 100% this number is, unless he folds. At Party's 30/60, this is an essentially unity probability for me, as it is in bigger games.

[J.A.Sucker]

These aren't even close to the same situation. I'm not calling in the SB with T9o, anyways. Either pump it or dump it, depending on the players. Suited, I may call, but there has to be certain conditions met.

[sthief09]

[ QUOTE ]
also i'm in favor of renaming "donkbet" to "fishbet"

[/ QUOTE ]


I'm in complete favor of changing it back to "gaybet" which is what it should be.

[theBruiser500]

[ QUOTE ]
These aren't even close to the same situation. I'm not calling in the SB with T9o, anyways. Either pump it or dump it, depending on the players. Suited, I may call, but there has to be certain conditions met.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, i know T9o is a fold there, i'm just saying somehow you got into that TYPE of situaiton. like say EP limper, LP raises and you call in BB with whatever hand. and also i know it's very different, my bad i don't know what i was thinking in my original post. but in that situation, do you agree my logic makes sense?

[AceHigh]

[ QUOTE ]
This is a steal from the button and there's a K on the board. Who cares. I'm not folding this hand in this situation barring something really extraordinary.

[/ QUOTE ]

What he said.