A hand from the WSOP $1000 Rebuys

[sirio11]

Hi

I would like to hear opinions about this hand.

Player A has about 7.5k in chips in the BB.
Player B has about 4.5k in chips in MP.

Blinds are 200-400 with 50 ante.

Player B raises to 1400 with 99. Player A calls with QT.

Flop Q75. Player A checks. Player B goes all in for about 3k and player A calls.

Comments?

[durron597]

I think you mean "player A calls".

And are we in the rebuy period?

[burningyen]

Player B sure is active.

[mlagoo]

what the hell

[sirio11]

Fixed. Not in the rebuy period. Less than 200 players left.

[BettyBoopAA]

Is player A Varkonyi?

[jedi]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi

I would like to hear opinions about this hand.

Player A has about 7.5k in chips in the BB.
Player B has about 4.5k in chips in MP.

Blinds are 200-400 with 50 ante.

Player B raises to 1400 with 99. Player A calls with QT.

Flop Q75. Player A checks. Player B goes all in for about 3k and player A calls.

Comments?

[/ QUOTE ]

If player B had 99, I might have pushed. I'm not sure I like player A calling with QT pre-flop, heads up medium stack vs. short stacked opponent.

[slickpoppa]

Player B should have gone all-in preflop.

[durron597]

I think the preflop call for the BB is borderline if and only if the QT is suited and you think you have a good read on MP.

I think the flop is read dependant. It sounds like player A put player B on a medium pocket pair and then went with his read on the flop.

Edit: original post was making the pot 1400, not 1400*2 plus SB + antes. I think pushing preflop is the best move given that there are antes.

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
Player B should have gone all-in preflop.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh there are antes aren't there. Yea, then pushing preflop works too.

[Avgard]

I think you got the pot size confused. $50 ante (assume 10 players) $1,400 raise, $500 SB fold and $1,400 call from BB. Total is $3,800. The all-in is smaller than pot. Only moves are all-in or check intending to fold. All-in seems like the best choice and hope for no Q from opponent.

Pre-plop, the call from the Q 10 is not a bad call in my mind. The pot is $2,800 and he needs to call $1,000. 2.8 to 1. You have to figure, hit or miss, you check to raiser who will push given his stack. If the big blind misses, easy fold. If he hit like this case, good chance he has best hand.

[durron597]

You're right, I fixed the post.

Yeah, given that Hero raised to 1400 preflop I like the push. You can make the case that he folds when you're ahead and calls with most hands that beat you (fold JJ, TT maybe?) but you can't give him a free card to draw to another over.

[schwza]

99 should push pre-flop. QT should fold to the 3.5x raise. after that, both played well, imo.

[TexTiger]

[ QUOTE ]

Pre-plop, the call from the Q 10 is not a bad call in my mind. The pot is $2,800 and he needs to call $1,000. 2.8 to 1.

[/ QUOTE ]

PF for BB pot is $2500, not $2800, 10 handed. So 2.5-1 to call. Worth a call for the rest of your reasoning if the QT is suited.

TT

[sdplayerb]

awful preflop call with QT for that many of his chips.
guy with 99 played it fine..that is pretty much an autopush.
just unlucky a donky called preflop.

[SossMan]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi

I would like to hear opinions about this hand.

Player A has about 7.5k in chips in the BB.
Sirio has about 4.5k in chips in MP.

Blinds are 200-400 with 50 ante.

Sirio raises to 1400 with 99. Player A calls with QT.

Flop Q75. Player A checks. Sirio goes all in for about 3k and player A calls.

Sirio proceeds to cash games.
Comments?

[/ QUOTE ]


FYP

[Hotrod0823]

If Player B is going to play the hand they should be pushing PF.

If Player A is going to just call the PF raise from the Short stack then why not just push in PF and see if they will lay down. The small PF raise from the short stack looks odd to me. Usually a small raise like that from a SS is screaming AA or KK. Or saying "push on me; push on me". Or is saying: "I really want to play but I know a limp is wrong but I don't want to bust out either".

I think pushing over the SS isn't a bad idea PF unless you think they have AA or KK. If you put them on that then your only option is to fold.

With the Flop pot sitting at 3000 +/- isn't Player A calling player B's flop bet when virtually and flop remotely hits. Why not put them to the test PF?



As it played out I think Player A's JUST calling is wrong. PF I am either scared of a "tricky" AA type hand or pushing over what I think may be a weak hand.

That makes this a push or fold situation for me.

[sirio11]

Player A is Chau Giang (Bellagio Big Game player for those who don't know).

After the hand my 1st thought was that I should push preflop, but I'm not really sure about this, I'm going all in in this hand no matter the flop, so his only chance was to flop a pair in the flop, because I'm going all in in the flop no matter what; then maybe raising is better then pushing preflop, but still haven't figure out the right amount to raise preflop.

[durron597]

If the BB was Chau Giang, then I really don't want to be playing post flop with him. I feel like he would be peering into my soul and know exactly what I have as if my cards were turned face up.

Thus I like the push even more preflop and let him make the decision with as little information as possible.

[CardSharpCook]

I like this play on both sides. You're committed to the hand with 99, and QT knows it. QT knows that if he pairs, you'll pay him off, and there is a reasonable chance that he'll be good. 99 knows that he doesn't want to collect the blinds with a decent holding like this, and is willing to take a little gamble to get a little more money in the pot. I am ok with a PF push, but a prefer getting a call.

CSC

[durron597]

[ QUOTE ]
I like this play on both sides. You're committed to the hand with 99, and QT knows it. QT knows that if he pairs, you'll pay him off, and there is a reasonable chance that he'll be good. 99 knows that he doesn't want to collect the blinds with a decent holding like this, and is willing to take a little gamble to get a little more money in the pot. I am ok with a PF push, but a prefer getting a call.

CSC

[/ QUOTE ]

This only makes sense if Player A *knows* Player B has an underpair. What if sirio has JJ, and a T flops? What if sirio has KQ?

[CardSharpCook]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I like this play on both sides. You're committed to the hand with 99, and QT knows it. QT knows that if he pairs, you'll pay him off, and there is a reasonable chance that he'll be good. 99 knows that he doesn't want to collect the blinds with a decent holding like this, and is willing to take a little gamble to get a little more money in the pot. I am ok with a PF push, but a prefer getting a call.

CSC

[/ QUOTE ]

This only makes sense if Player A *knows* Player B has an underpair. What if sirio has JJ, and a T flops? What if sirio has KQ?

[/ QUOTE ]

No, it only makes sense if player A *knows* player B is willing to die with this hand. What if sirio has AK/AJ/AT/AQ etc, etc. Sirio frequently has a hand that can be beaten by a pair on the flop, and has enough chips behind to make it a good call (implied odds).

[MLG]

This is just very very wrong man. Do some math, put a range up of sirio's raising hands, and then the amount of time Q10 flops and wins, and then the amount that Q10 flops and loses, and then the amount that Q10 whiffs and folds the flop. I promise, not good. You have huge reverse implied odds because of all the times you flop a pair and still lose.

[CardSharpCook]

[ QUOTE ]
This is just very very wrong man. Do some math, put a range up of sirio's raising hands, and then the amount of time Q10 flops and wins, and then the amount that Q10 flops and loses, and then the amount that Q10 whiffs and folds the flop. I promise, not good. You have huge reverse implied odds because of all the times you flop a pair and still lose.

[/ QUOTE ]

OK, if AI PF, against this range of hands: AA-55, AKs-A8s, KQs-KTs, QJs, AKo-ATo, KQo... QTo/QTs Sirio wins 66/34, obviously a call. If we assume that Sirio will push any flop... well, how much does that really hurt us? Put a queen on the flop, Villian wins 63/37. Put a ten on the flop, villian wins 60/40. A queen hits 18% of the time, a ten hits 18% of the time. Overlap occurs 4% of the time, but dramatically increases odds of wining. We are calling the push of the flop 35% of the time and when we do, we win 62% of the time. We lose 1K 65% of the time. We win 5200 22% of the time, and we lose 4500 16% of the time.

.62*-1000 = -620
.22*5200 = 1144
.16*-4500 = -702
= -178.

We lose 400 if we fold PF. We choose the slightly less -EV situation. Also, notice that in my calculations I did not include the 400 we posted to be part of the pot. Not sure if I should, but I think that when we are comparing it to the -400 of folding PF, I did it right.

CSC

Edit: forgot ante, corrected now.

[sirio11]

Yes, I also thought about this, I'm not sure I'm calling with QTo in this spot, specially with his stack; but well, he is Chau Giang, need to do the math to come with the correct amount to raise giving my hand and my plan in the flop.

[MLG]

you dont get -400 if you fold now and -178 if you call. The blind is already in the pot so either you lose 0 vs. -178 or -400 v -578. Include the blind as part of the pot when you do your calculations.

[sirio11]

I was in MP, with some active players behind me, so my range of hands definetly didn't include (or at least hard to imagine I could have) 77-55, ATs-A8s, KJs-KTs, QJs, ATo, KQo..QTo.

[CardSharpCook]

[ QUOTE ]
you dont get -400 if you fold now and -178 if you call. The blind is already in the pot so either you lose 0 vs. -178 or -400 v -578. Include the blind as part of the pot when you do your calculations.

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, then,
.62 * 1000 = -620
.22 * 5600 = 1232
.16 * -4100 = -656
=-44

You lose 44 chips here. Close, but -EV. Against Sirio's tightened range, you lose more.

CSC

[CardSharpCook]

[ QUOTE ]
I was in MP, with some active players behind me, so my range of hands definetly didn't include (or at least hard to imagine I could have) 77-55, ATs-A8s, KJs-KTs, QJs, ATo, KQo..QTo.

[/ QUOTE ]
Folded to you with 5 players left to act and you are folding KQo ATo, ATs, KJs, QJs,77,66? 55, A9s, A8s, KTs, I can see folding given your stack size, but what does the zoo think about these raising standards? Is this too tight?

(BTW, should have made it clearer, but QTo was his holding - that was not part of your range in the calculations.)

CSC

[billyjex]

I agree with those who said push PF w/ 99. I don't really want action on middle pair with those chips.