Strange 10-20 hand

[ender]

Just got called to the main 10-20 game from a must move. I've heard from other players that it's a very good table and I can say in hindsight that it was very loose. My very first hand I am dealt black sevens in the cutoff. 4 limpers to me and I raise. Both blinds come in and we see the flop 7 handed. Pot $140.

Flop Ad 5d 2s

Checked to me and I bet. Good, tricky player in the BB calls along with 2 of the limpers. Pot $180.

Turn Ah (Ad 5d 2s)

BB bets out. All fold to me and I call. Pot $220.

River 3h (Ah Ad 5d 2s)

BB checks and I bet.

Comments please. Results will follow.

[ender]

BB called and mucked when he saw my hand.

I usually don't raise in this situation pre-flop and in hindsight it was wrong for this table. They were likely to come with any pair on the flop so I didn't need to keep them in by making the pot big.

I feel confident the flop bet was right as I can't let overcards to my pair get a free shot.

I called the turn because I thought the BB would have bet out or check-raised the flop if he had an ace. Should I have raised? If I raise, do I check the river if I don't hit a seven?

The river bet was purely for value. I thought the BB might have a bigger pair then mine, but I still had > 55% of having the best hand.

[Ulysses]

Pre-flop: I wouldn't raise here w/ 4 limpers already. I'd call and hope for undercards or a set.

Flop: Your raise actually worked out, since it may have been bet and raised ahead of you had you limped in. Have to bet here.

Turn: I don't see any reason to raise here.

River: I think you're ahead here. Only cards I'd be worried about from BB are 33,44,45. I think you should value-bet here.

[Matt Flynn]

There's another reason to raise preflop besides creating a pot that will yield chasers: buying the button. If the button's indicating a fold, fine. If not, you should raise unless he's good enough to be mostly indifferent to a raise.

The raise and button buy often gives you the option of checking the flop.

I like the river bet. Worst case is he's got you beat and you correct his mistake of failing to bet.

Matt

[PokerPrince]

I like the way you played this hand.

PokerPrince

[Diplomat]

Played well, pre-flop to river. I guess your caller had something like 56s -- bet out on the turn to see if you have an ace or big pair, and probably would muck to a raise. The river call snaps off a bluff if you just had big suited cards.

[andyfox]

"I usually don't raise in this situation pre-flop and in hindsight it was wrong for this table. They were likely to come with any pair on the flop so I didn't need to keep them in by making the pot big."

I liked your play on all streets, pre-flop included. This is an ideal raising hand with a bunch of limpers in front of you, especially from the cut-off where you can buy the button. If you flop a set, the big pot will entice them to stay in to lose more to you.

[astroglide]

http://216.239.53.100/search?q=cache:v04o5NnRL1IC:izmet.desetka.si/implied.html+set+implied+buy+button+fekali&hl=en&l r=lang_en&ie=UTF-8

i think whoever agreed with raising preflop should consider the thoughts presented here

77 simply doesn't win enough 5-handed. it's 7.5:1 to flop a set, and you won't even win with it every time you do. 7-high flushes are worthless, and 1-card straights are rare enough that they're not really woth considering.

the hand relies on implied odds, and you're mathematically screwing yourself any time you raise preflop in this situation.

whether or not you believe that the value of the big scary raise or the value of buying the button (what great difference is it to be second to last vs last to act when you have a set?) is up to you.

[Gabe]

but I still had > 55% of having the best hand.

I think it is better than 55%. He'll have a 5, a 2, or even a 3 often in the BB here.

[cpk]

I would've played this exactly the same way.

Raising the 77 is correct. If you get 7-way action most hands, 77 has surplus pot equity, so you raise because you have the best of it. Someone else mentioned "buying the button"--that too is a good reason. But I think this is actually a raise for value, not a strategic raise.

If this is the sort of game where people play too loosely pre-flop but too tightly post-flop (common where I live), then raising is especially important. You need to get your money in while they're willing to call with worse hands. You won't get a chance to later.

Now that you got everyone to believe you have something, you should bet if everyone checks to you. They may make a mistake and fold a small pair or something (folding with a flopped pair is a huge mistake when the pot offers you 15:1).

On the turn, you should call. This is discussed in the hand Mason posted as well as the one about Roy Cooke--if you have no idea whether you're far ahead or far behind, then you should just call so you can keep the pot if you're ahead but not lose an extra bet when you're behind.

The value bet on the end is perceptive on your part. The pot is large, so it makes more sense for him to call you with a hand that you beat.

[astroglide]

77 has fair odds 7-way (and at this point, only 5-way is guaranteed) before a raise

after a raise, regardless of who made it, it just had its odds cut in HALF - an ADDITIONAL more than 7.5 small bets (to account for flopping a set and losing) have to be collected in order to break even on participation in the hand

the odds of 77 standing up without a set or a 1-card straight (with the 7 towards the middle of it) are overwhelmingly slim