Q10s after 2 limpers

[Wynton]

Do you raise this preflop? I was losing at the time, and had a bad table image so just limped along. I think the turn was ok, but not sure about river.

PokerStars 2/4 Hold'em (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls, MP calls, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, <font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, MP calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls, MP calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">UTG bets</font>, MP calls, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, UTG calls, MP folds.

River: (10.50 BB) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, Hero checks.

Final Pot: 10.50 BB

[JrJordan]

Preflop is fine with two limpers. I'm also assuming you would fold to a turn 3-bet. River I check through because I'm not too confident I'm actually ahead here from his donkish tendencies. I like it all the way around.

[ISF]

Preflop you have a decent equity edge on most limpers and would like to get out the blinds, so I would always raise this, I would raise down to 910s. I think the river is pretty close, I would usually bet this river as you are only outkicked by two tens, and a jack would have usually threebet you at some point.

[RunDownHouse]

Wow. Anyone else raise T9s after two limpers?

[Grisgra]

[ QUOTE ]
Wow. Anyone else raise T9s after two limpers?

[/ QUOTE ]

When I'm in pound-pound-pound mode at a weak table, yeah. Esp. if the blinds are at all tight and I think I gain a good degree of folding equity if an ace flops.

I don't think limping is a tragedy, though.

[Stefan_K]

I raise this preflop, the rest of the hand i play the same

[RunDownHouse]

Oh, and I also bet the river, too. I think you would have heard from a J somewhere, so you're only worried about AT/KT.

[Surfbullet]

If we are confident enough in our hand to value-raise the turn, then we have to value-bet the river, since we fold out many bluffing hands that may bet again on the river.

It is unlikely that either player has a Jack given the action, so we have to decide whether UTG is more likely to continue betting on the river, or whether he will more often call down.

Against most low-limit opponents I would agree with your line of raising the turn, but follow it through with a river bet for value since you will be called by worse hands more often than they will bet at you again on the river.

Surf

[Jonny Melon]

Nice hand. I assume you will fold to a turn 3-bet.

Jon

[clownshoes]

[ QUOTE ]
If we are confident enough in our hand to value-raise the turn, then we have to value-bet the river, since we fold out many bluffing hands that may bet again on the river.

It is unlikely that either player has a Jack given the action, so we have to decide whether UTG is more likely to continue betting on the river, or whether he will more often call down.

Against most low-limit opponents I would agree with your line of raising the turn, but follow it through with a river bet for value since you will be called by worse hands more often than they will bet at you again on the river.

Surf

[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah I agree, if youre raising the turn then you must bet this river.

[hypermegachi]

i raise preflop, and bet the river for value. if they had a jack they would likely show you that on the turn. you're out kicked by only 2 cards, and beat everything else.

[Wynton]

Villain had QQ. /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

Sorry for posting the results. I know they're irrelevant here. Just can't resist pointing out the limitations of analysis, sometimes.

Still, I think I might have be persuaded now in the logic of betting the river, against most people.

[sinfulslick18]

Raise preflop..
-sinful

[partygirluk]

Don't agree with those who say if you raise the turn you have to bet river. Villain's actions in this hand will quite often be that of a draw. Thus raising the turn and checking behind on the river is best, because he might not fire a third barrel if he misses.

[geormiet]

You should have limp reraised preflop, 3 bet the flop, 3 bet the turn, and raised the river.

[Wynton]

[ QUOTE ]
You should have limp reraised preflop, 3 bet the flop, 3 bet the turn, and raised the river.

[/ QUOTE ]

Testing my gullibility again, eh Geo?

[geormiet]

Not poking fun at you...just some of the LAGtastic responses.

This is in no way a clear riverbet. The majority of the time he has a busted draw, or a scared J.

[Surfbullet]

[ QUOTE ]
Not poking fun at you...just some of the LAGtastic responses.

This is in no way a clear riverbet. The majority of the time he has a busted draw, or a scared J.

[/ QUOTE ]

What "busted draws" play the hand this way? Players certainly do overplay draws at times, but that will almost always be on the flop - he has almost no chance of folding the field with a turn donkbet- this type of play is far far more often a weak made hand like a small T or PP or A6 etc that is worried about giving a free card but not strong enough to 3bet the flop.

The turn raise is good. This is a clear river value bet, as so many worse hands will call - plus the passive nature of this game means that almost no worse hands will bluff at you, so his check gives you little information.

Furthermore, it is improbable that there is a "scared jack" out there - there was no PFR so there is no reason to fear AJ or some monster, so the only reason our opponent would take this line would be with the intention of 3betting the turn. When he fails to do so he is very very unlikely to have a jack.

Surf

[sethypooh21]

[ QUOTE ]
Wow. Anyone else raise T9s after two limpers?

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually prefer calling with the intention of reraising a raise from the blinds with JTs and t9s after multiple limpers.