Tough decision for me with 55

[ChuckyB]

Seat 10 is all-in with the BB, seat 9 has 290 left after small blind. He/she has made very questionable pre-flop folds late (ignoring pot odds), so it might happen again.

What do I do with 55 on the button?


NL Hold'em $5 Buy-in + $1 Entry Fee
Blinds(250/500)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 3
Seat 4: HERO ( $7000 )
Seat 9: ratholing ( $540 )
Seat 10: carrih123111 ( $460 )
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to HERO [ 5c 5d ]

[Shilly]

Push push push.

[xenotix]

put them both all-in

[emptypockets]

This shouldn´t be a tough decision. Just push it.

[lehighguy]

Just push it in for christ sake, are you scared little boy.


P.S. Just playin

[mosdef]

you should be pushing any two cards in these situations, i would think.

[DasLeben]

I'm pushing any two here. Fives are awesome. Pooosh!

[Kristian]

I got another tough one:
The hottest super model in the world is hitting on me like there is no tomorrow. I am single, straight and horny. Should I bone her? Pls help!

[zambonidrivr]

you should be pushing any 2 at this point every hand.

[mosdef]

[ QUOTE ]
I got another tough one:
The hottest super model in the world is hitting on me like there is no tomorrow. I am single, straight and horny. Should I bone her? Pls help!

[/ QUOTE ]

no. just like chuckyb's opponent might have aces, she might have the clap.

[Kristian]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I got another tough one:
The hottest super model in the world is hitting on me like there is no tomorrow. I am single, straight and horny. Should I bone her? Pls help!

[/ QUOTE ]

no. just like chuckyb's opponent might have aces, she might have the clap.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're obviously right. But this laydown could take a while...

[Karak567]

[ QUOTE ]
I got another tough one:
The hottest super model in the world is hitting on me like there is no tomorrow. I am single, straight and horny. Should I bone her? Pls help!

[/ QUOTE ]

Depends on how "tight" she is as a "player."

[hummusx]

I thought this was a joke. I had to be a joke. Your opponents have ONE BB. Just get the chips in there and knock them out.

[emptypockets]

Well, if you fold every hand, including AA, you have a great shot at second place, and thats not bad at all.
Drive safely.

[kyro]

I wish threads like these would get only one reply so they wouldn't always be at the top. The one reply could be...

"Are you [censored] serious?"

I realize I am a hypocrite, but I'm just throwing this idea out there.

[octaveshift]

[ QUOTE ]

I realize I am the self-ordained forum police, but I enjoy pointing out the shortcomings of others, because it makes me feel better about myself.

[/ QUOTE ]

fyp.

[Voltron87]

everyone in this thread is missing the point and giving awful advice. BB obviously has QQ-AA, I put him on it the instant I saw the thread. insta fold.

if you guys want to become great posters, you have to use 3rd and 4th level thinking. dont just say "oh this is the answer to your question" and just evaluate the hand posted, you have to have a read on the poster, think about his motive, all that. this is not just about giving generic answers.

[The Yugoslavian]

Whatever you do in this particular hand...just don't fold at any point and you'll be fine.

Yugoslav

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm pushing any two here. Fives are awesome. Pooosh!

[/ QUOTE ]

hero should clearly play with 55, but why on earth would you push 32o? you won't be nearly 1/3 to win the pot. i think you should only be playing hands that have a decent chance to win.

[kyro]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I realize I am the self-ordained forum police, but I enjoy pointing out the shortcomings of others, because it makes me feel better about myself.

[/ QUOTE ]

fyp.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm tired of posts with obvious answers. And no, it's not obvious because I, kyro, said so. It's obvious because if you have even made an effort to read any of the posts in the last month or so, you'd know what the correct play is.

I think I'm turning into a less talented citanul.

[ChuckyB]

Heads up, push, no question. The problem I thought at the time is "How will a pair of fives play against what could very well be 4 over-cards?" The answer is crappy.

Holdem Hi: 1370754 enumerated boards
cards win %win
5c 5d 454560 33.16
8c Qh 519057 37.87
6s Jd 391761 28.58

I pushed the SB all-in (she might have dumped it) but didn't. There wasn't any real leverage to push her out. And I finished third in the hand.

Anyway, the SB busted the BB, then I cleaned the SBs clock with the chip lead. The monster chip lead makes me think dumping a low pair, in this situation only, would have been better

[ChuckyB]

55 against four overcards (possibly)? With a monster chip lead?

[ChuckyB]

I agree. Why triple up the BB possibly or almost triple up the SB? I don't need to win RIGHTNOW. I just need to win. Any ace...push. Any big suited card...push. Connecters 98 and higher, probably any king. But two low cards, even though they're paired, doesn't do well against TWO opponents.

[ChuckyB]

If I don't fold, the SB pushes anyway, then I have to call. So it's either push or fold.

[ChuckyB]

I appreciate all of you taking time to answer/flame. Does no one who posted here know how poorly small pairs play against multiple opponents?

[kyro]

[ QUOTE ]
I agree. Why triple up the BB possibly or almost triple up the SB? I don't need to win RIGHTNOW. I just need to win. Any ace...push. Any big suited card...push. Connecters 98 and higher, probably any king. But two low cards, even though they're paired, doesn't do well against TWO opponents.

[/ QUOTE ]

Um...the only way you're going to triple one of them up is if both call. Which they may, but this means by folding you're just going to double one of them up. What's the difference between tripling and doubling up? 1BB. Please push.

[lastchance]

Umm... Push?

Um... Folding is dumb. At the very least, I'm calling. Your logic would make sense, except THEY HAVE ONE BB!!! You're getting the odds to make this push, ESPECIALLY if they laydown.

[deetle]

[ QUOTE ]
I appreciate all of you taking time to answer/flame. Does no one who posted here know how poorly small pairs play against multiple opponents?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes they do but your chip lead is so that if you double one of your opponents up your lead is still 6 to 1. They are playing for 2nd. Push

[ChuckyB]

If everyone is in (which is almost certainly going to happen), and I lose (which happened in the actual hand) my chip lead is 6500-1500. Had I folded out (on my 30-40% chance of winning), it would've been 7000-1000.

I believe in being aggressive, and it wouldn't have made that much of a difference in this game, but there's a real argument that I should have dumped this.

[Nick M]

WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT????? If you push you think the SB calls????? you're against one person not 2...please just push!!!! jesus.

[lastchance]

Maybe this will make it easier. They have any 2 cards. Both of them. 55 is 40% against that. You've got 2 to 1 odds. That's more than enough to push.

[Voltron87]

[ QUOTE ]
there's a real argument that I should have dumped this.


[/ QUOTE ]

no there isn't. it really, really, really isn't close.

do you know how 55 fares against one random hand? (hint: good) If you push you will be against one hand, with some dead money from the other blind making it very +EV.

[lastchance]

No, since SB has a bigger stack, he's calling along. Plus, 3rd to 2nd isn't like 4th to 3rd.

[Unarmed]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm pushing any two here. Fives are awesome. Pooosh!

[/ QUOTE ]

hero should clearly play with 55, but why on earth would you push 32o? you won't be nearly 1/3 to win the pot. i think you should only be playing hands that have a decent chance to win.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you.
This thread is retarded BTW.

[Voltron87]

?

If hero pushes, the sb will usually fold knowing the BB is all in.

or do i have the order wrong?

[lastchance]

Nope. SB Calls. SB is losing 250 chips if he folds, which is half his stack. If BB wins, SB gets 3rd (for all intents and purposes).

SB calls so BB has less of a chance of winning. SB gets 2nd even if Hero beats both of them.

SB doesn't fold here. SB calls.

[Voltron87]

well obviously if you or I are in the SB we're calling, but there are a lot of dumb people out there who won't realize how going all in and being 3 ways all in affects things. depends what level we're looking at.

[DasLeben]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm pushing any two here. Fives are awesome. Pooosh!

[/ QUOTE ]

hero should clearly play with 55, but why on earth would you push 32o? you won't be nearly 1/3 to win the pot. i think you should only be playing hands that have a decent chance to win.

[/ QUOTE ]

You're right. Hence why I shouldn't post/play without sleep for 30 hours. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Honestly though, unless SB is calling with any two (which he should, but probably won't at this level) it's still +EV to even push 32o.

[ChuckyB]

Actually the SB did call.

With 250 already into a pot of 1250 chips...he/she had no choice (as far as pot odds). I guess he/she didn't think about the money implications. Actually, as I write this, neither did I.

[ChuckyB]

SB did call when I pushed.

[Voltron87]

well the sb calling is very correct, so obviously they did think about the money implications. i was saying that at the low limits people dont usually play correctly, so a call from the sb is not always likely.

[ChuckyB]

Whether or not you agree with me, thank you for making the point that there's no way I'm getting heads-up in this hand . Even at a game as weak as the $6 PP SNG...folding the SB would be a ridiculous play.

[IamLeach]

With stacks like that....You go all in.

[ChuckyB]

I and my bankroll agree with you on that. And she'd been making questionable folds. But a fold there would have blown my mind.

That's why the 55 was causing me trouble.

[Voltron87]

ok, so how does 55 fare against two random hands? is it +EV?

[ChuckyB]

I'm not quite at the level of game where I can tell you if it's +EV. (I'm not entirely sure how/where to calculate that.)

All I know is that against 4 overs (which is quite possible)...I'd be about 33 percent to win. With an under card or two, it goes as high as 40-ish. Definitely good enough for a push.

At the time, I didn't think it would be 40-ish. But I pushed anyway.

[lastchance]

Against any 2, I think it's 40 (monte carlo sim). That's WAY too good to pass up here, IMHO.

And actually, SB will fold here. Obviously, it's a terrible, awful, horrible fold here, but SB's fold here. And if you think SB might fold a hand here, you've got to push.

There's no way in hell you fold 55 on the button here. It's just too damn good against two random hands.

Any hand that is better than 35% against 2 random hands should be pushed here, any worse worse than 30% should be folded.

Do you guys see why?