All I'm Offering Is The Truth

[SpearsBritney]

Throughout history, war planners have used various forms of deception to trick their enemies. Because public support is so crucial to the process of initiating and waging war, the home population is also subject to deceitful stratagems. The creation of false excuses to justify going to war is a major first step in constructing public support for such deadly ventures. Perhaps the most common pretext for war is an apparently unprovoked enemy attack. Such attacks, however, are often fabricated, incited or deliberately allowed to occur. They are then exploited to arouse widespread public sympathy for the victims, demonize the attackers and build mass support for military “retaliation.”

Like schoolyard bullies who shout ‘He hit me first!’, war planners know that it is irrelevant whether the opponent really did ‘throw the first punch.’ As long as it can be made to appear that the attack was unprovoked, the bully receives license to ‘respond’ with force. Bullies and war planners are experts at taunting, teasing and threatening their opponents. If the enemy cannot be goaded into ‘firing the first shot,’ it is easy enough to lie about what happened. Sometimes, that is sufficient to rationalize a schoolyard beating or a genocidal war.

Such trickery has probably been employed by every military power throughout history. During the Roman empire, the causes of war -- cassus belli -- were often invented to conceal the real reasons for war. Over the millennia, although weapons and battle strategies have changed greatly, the deceitful strategem of using pretext incidents to ignite war has remained remarkably consistent.

Pretext incidents, in themselves, are not sufficient to spark wars. Rumors and allegations about the tragic events must first spread throughout the target population. Constant repetition of the official version of what happened, spawns dramatic narratives that are lodged into public consciousness. The stories become accepted without question and legends are fostered. The corporate media is central to the success of such ‘psychological operations.’ Politicians rally people around the flag, lending their special oratory skills to the call for a military “response.” Demands for “retaliation” then ring out across the land, war hysteria mounts and, finally, a war is born.

Every time the US has gone to war, pretext incidents have been used. Upon later examination, the conventional perception of these events is always challenged and eventually exposed as untrue. Historians, investigative journalists and many others, have cited eyewitness accounts, declassified documents and statements made by the perpetrators themselves to demonstrate that the provocative incidents were used as stratagems to stage-manage the march to war.

[gunt]

you are absolutely correct..
every war has a PR dept.
the war in iraq would not have existed if we did not have a president who had middle eastern interests.
Propaganda is funny... not as funny as the people who eat it up.... i.e. the people who think irag had something to do with 9/11...terrorists flocked to irag after we attacked to defend islam interests... al zaquari is not an iraqi.
americans justify our occupation because we are " liberating the iraqi people".... personally, i don't think one american life is worth iraqi independence.

[Edge34]

You do know this is one reason they made that little "politics" forum, less than half an inch above Other Other Topics, right?

Thought so.

[SpearsBritney]

[ QUOTE ]
you are absolutely correct..
every war has a PR dept.
the war in iraq would not have existed if we did not have a president who had middle eastern interests.
Propaganda is funny... not as funny as the people who eat it up.... i.e. the people who think irag had something to do with 9/11...terrorists flocked to irag after we attacked to defend islam interests... al zaquari is not an iraqi.
americans justify our occupation because we are " liberating the iraqi people".... personally, i don't think one american life is worth iraqi independence.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have a feeling that if you knew what I was implying, you would not be so quick to agree with me.

[gunt]

[ QUOTE ]
You do know this is one reason they made that little "politics" forum, less than half an inch above Other Other Topics, right?

Thought so.

[/ QUOTE ]
touche

[SpearsBritney]

[ QUOTE ]
You do know this is one reason they made that little "politics" forum, less than half an inch above Other Other Topics, right?

Thought so.

[/ QUOTE ]

That forum sucks

[Edge34]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You do know this is one reason they made that little "politics" forum, less than half an inch above Other Other Topics, right?

Thought so.

[/ QUOTE ]
touche

[/ QUOTE ]

/images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Eihli]

Because the posts like this are filtered there. Let's try to keep it that way.

[Edge34]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You do know this is one reason they made that little "politics" forum, less than half an inch above Other Other Topics, right?

Thought so.

[/ QUOTE ]

That forum sucks

[/ QUOTE ]

So does this thread.

Seriously, just because you don't like it (and neither do i), this stuff really belongs over there. Its been there for long enough. Use it.

[SpearsBritney]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
You do know this is one reason they made that little "politics" forum, less than half an inch above Other Other Topics, right?

Thought so.

[/ QUOTE ]

That forum sucks

[/ QUOTE ]

So does this thread.

Seriously, just because you don't like it (and neither do i), this stuff really belongs over there. Its been there for long enough. Use it.

[/ QUOTE ]

I was hoping to get flamed for wearing a tinfoil hat, not where I chose to post. /images/graemlins/frown.gif

[gunt]

maybe i didn't make myself clear...i agree with your statement that before a war is waged, the is a smear campaign against the country we are going to war with...i.e. iraq ( WMD )...human rights violations... which end up to be false, then the campaign takes a 180 degree turn to a different purpose..i.e. liberating the iraqi people.

[SpearsBritney]

[ QUOTE ]
maybe i didn't make myself clear...i agree with your statement that before a war is waged, the is a smear campaign against the country we are going to war with...i.e. iraq ( WMD )...human rights violations... which end up to be false, then the campaign takes a 180 degree turn to a different purpose..i.e. liberating the iraqi people.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let me spell it out for you. A..M..E..R..I..C..A DID IT!! And by "it", I mean 911!

[Edge34]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
maybe i didn't make myself clear...i agree with your statement that before a war is waged, the is a smear campaign against the country we are going to war with...i.e. iraq ( WMD )...human rights violations... which end up to be false, then the campaign takes a 180 degree turn to a different purpose..i.e. liberating the iraqi people.

[/ QUOTE ]

Let me spell it out for you. A..M..E..R..I..C..A DID IT!! And by "it", I mean 911!

[/ QUOTE ]

riiiiiight...see, this stuff is just so old, why bother flaming for it? If you believe it, that's really sad, but hey. And if not, its not really funny because so many idiots, especially in politics, do.

Seriously, take this stuff over there, they'll give you the flames you want.

[manpower]

[ QUOTE ]
Let me spell it out for you. A..M..E..R..I..C..A DID IT!! And by "it", I mean 911!

[/ QUOTE ]
Wait, I don't follow, could you say that again?

[ChoicestHops]

I dont know if the government orchestrated 911, but it's definitely possible.

[cnfuzzd]

[ QUOTE ]
Moderator(s) notified In a moment you will be automatically returned to the forum.

Return to Forum

[/ QUOTE ]

peace

john nickle

[natedogg]

Dude, holy [censored] did you see that crazy video the 49ers PR guy made? That was hilarious.

natedogg

[SpearsBritney]

[ QUOTE ]
If you believe it, that's really sad,

[/ QUOTE ]

Translation: My government would never commit such an atrocity. Why on earth would they put financial gain and future economic stability above 3000 human lives.

Answer: What do you think they're doing when they send tens of thousands of troops to war each and every time?

[SpearsBritney]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Moderator(s) notified In a moment you will be automatically returned to the forum.

Return to Forum

[/ QUOTE ]

peace

john nickle

[/ QUOTE ]

You rat me out like a little bitch, and then offer peace? I don't get it.

[lastchance]

Who needs to do this [censored] when others will do it for you? (Damn French) (that's not what you think it is either)

Also, where's your evidence? I mean, give us something to go on.

[cnfuzzd]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Moderator(s) notified In a moment you will be automatically returned to the forum.

Return to Forum

[/ QUOTE ]

peace

john nickle

[/ QUOTE ]

You rat me out like a little bitch, and then offer peace? I don't get it.

[/ QUOTE ]

This clearly belonged in the politics forum, any attempt to put it somewhere else is lame. Not only did a rat you out, but then to get some immediate action i paid one of the mods off. oh, and i dont care about this at all. Whatever relevence you are trying to get out of this is nothing more or less than a crude derrivative of the opportunistic nature of Capital to exploit the divisions with various economic and ethnic groups to further justify its expansion, as originally discussed almost a hundred years ago. Old news partner. Sorry.

peace

john nickle

[Broken Glass Can]

Wasn't it terrible for us to go to war on that "pretext incident" at Pearl Harbor? Shame on us. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[cnfuzzd]

[ QUOTE ]
Wasn't it terrible for us to go to war on that "pretext incident" at Pearl Harbor? Shame on us. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

wow. to claim that pearl harbor was anything other than a poltical tool, brought about by policies adopted by the us government, and manipulated to garner a very specific policy-outcome, is utterly ludicrous.

peace

john nickle

[SpearsBritney]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Wasn't it terrible for us to go to war on that "pretext incident" at Pearl Harbor? Shame on us. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

wow. to claim that pearl harbor was anything other than a poltical tool, brought about by policies adopted by the us government, and manipulated to garner a very specific policy-outcome, is utterly ludicrous.

peace

john nickle

[/ QUOTE ]

Glad to see you've finally come back to reality /images/graemlins/tongue.gif. But seriously, the truth is that niether of us will ever have any direct information about any war, and must go with what we have been taught and consequently believe. You aparently (like most people) believe what you have been told by the mainstream media and (biased) history textbooks, both of which seem incredibly transparent and self-serving IMO. And I, for the most part, tend to go with what the rest of the tinfoil hat-wearing crowd believes, which usually seems absurd and unreasonable to you and the majority of the population.

But why is it that most people feel that conspiricy theories are so far out of the realm of possibility? I would believe it has alot to do with the fact that most people are generally optimistic by nature (I wish I could say the same for myself), and have a hard time believing that the world is as dark and as hostile as any one of my posts would have you believe. Their general unwillingness to accept that their government would be so quick to put profit and long-term stability over individual human life, keeps them believing exactly what the corporate media wants, and from using logic and reason to develop their own opinions about what may or may not have happened.

I personally believe that although the picture I'm painting seems horrific and demoralizing, it is a necessary evil to wage wars over resources and territory for the further advancment and evolution of our civilization, and then cover them up with fabrications and half-truths so that the peace-loving general population will be accepting of them.

(P.S. sorry about being a disrespectful little punk towards you. I get like that sometimes /images/graemlins/confused.gif)

[player24]

Wake up...
http://img258.echo.cx/img258/6135/11183541636962br0ox.gif

[cnfuzzd]

im not disagreeing with you. You just havent stumbled on anything to radical. These ideas have been running around for pretty much ever. If you are really interested in them, go read some books, and not books that have been produced in the last couple of decades.

Also, dont worry about the punk thing, you werent out of line, ive just been grouchily expounding lately.

peace

john nickle

[HtotheNootch]

That's exactly what you're offering. For those who don't think so, I suggest you google a little something called "Operation Northwoods". Essentially it was a plan by the Joint Chiefs to stage domestic acts of terrorism in order to create a pretext for an invasion of Cuba. The plan included flying planes into buildings.

If you want I can even draw you straight lines from then chairman Lemitzer to the current administration.

However, I think everyone is best served by researching such things themselves and coming to a conclusion. Just look with open eyes.

[tek]

[ QUOTE ]
If you want I can even draw you straight lines from then chairman Lemitzer to the current administration.

[/ QUOTE ]

Please do.

[KyleM]

[ QUOTE ]
Throughout history, war planners have used various forms of deception to trick their enemies. Because public support is so crucial to the process of initiating and waging war, the home population is also subject to deceitful stratagems. The creation of false excuses to justify going to war is a major first step in constructing public support for such deadly ventures. Perhaps the most common pretext for war is an apparently unprovoked enemy attack. Such attacks, however, are often fabricated, incited or deliberately allowed to occur. They are then exploited to arouse widespread public sympathy for the victims, demonize the attackers and build mass support for military “retaliation.”

Like schoolyard bullies who shout ‘He hit me first!’, war planners know that it is irrelevant whether the opponent really did ‘throw the first punch.’ As long as it can be made to appear that the attack was unprovoked, the bully receives license to ‘respond’ with force. Bullies and war planners are experts at taunting, teasing and threatening their opponents. If the enemy cannot be goaded into ‘firing the first shot,’ it is easy enough to lie about what happened. Sometimes, that is sufficient to rationalize a schoolyard beating or a genocidal war.

Such trickery has probably been employed by every military power throughout history. During the Roman empire, the causes of war -- cassus belli -- were often invented to conceal the real reasons for war. Over the millennia, although weapons and battle strategies have changed greatly, the deceitful strategem of using pretext incidents to ignite war has remained remarkably consistent.

Pretext incidents, in themselves, are not sufficient to spark wars. Rumors and allegations about the tragic events must first spread throughout the target population. Constant repetition of the official version of what happened, spawns dramatic narratives that are lodged into public consciousness. The stories become accepted without question and legends are fostered. The corporate media is central to the success of such ‘psychological operations.’ Politicians rally people around the flag, lending their special oratory skills to the call for a military “response.” Demands for “retaliation” then ring out across the land, war hysteria mounts and, finally, a war is born.

Every time the US has gone to war, pretext incidents have been used. Upon later examination, the conventional perception of these events is always challenged and eventually exposed as untrue. Historians, investigative journalists and many others, have cited eyewitness accounts, declassified documents and statements made by the perpetrators themselves to demonstrate that the provocative incidents were used as stratagems to stage-manage the march to war.

[/ QUOTE ]

Royal flush.