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Turk
06-08-2005, 11:56 PM
I put UTG on a pretty wide range and woulnd't have been able to call fast enough...but I didnt like MP's cold call.
The only thing I remembered from her was a mini raise with AK.
I am thinking now that the right play was to fold this and wait for a better spot against a single opponent. Or is that too weak on the bubble?

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP (t2215)
Button (t1240)
SB (t2570)
Hero (t1165)
UTG (t810)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to t810 (All-In)</font>, MP calls t810, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t1165 (All-In)</font>, MP calls t355.

Flop: (t3240) 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players, 2 all-in)</font>

Turn: (t3240) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players, 2 all-in)</font>

River: (t3240) Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players, 2 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t3240
Isura
06-09-2005, 12:02 AM
You only have 5BB's and it's still 5-handed. I think I would call getting 2 to 1 here.
Sidekick
06-09-2005, 12:20 AM
It might be weak, but I probably fold this hand in this situation. (I wish I had a read on MP.)

Like you, I would happily call the push from UTG. But when MP only calls, this sets off warning flags to me. MP could easily have come over the top in order to isolate UTG, but chose to just call. Why? To me it looks like MP wants other people to call to gain more chips with a monster hand.

If MP is a LAG or just a crappy player that has been lucky up to this point, then the above analysis is very flawed and I probably make this call. However, if MP has played a solid game up until now I want no part of this hand.

Pocket JJ usually doesn't hold up well in a multi-way pot.

Hope this helps.
Karak567
06-09-2005, 12:27 AM
Are you Turk41? I play more tournaments with a "turk41" than anyone else.
Turk
06-09-2005, 01:20 AM
[ QUOTE ]

Like you, I would happily call the push from UTG. But when MP only calls, this sets off warning flags to me. MP could easily have come over the top in order to isolate UTG, but chose to just call. Why? To me it looks like MP wants other people to call to gain more chips with a monster hand.

If MP is a LAG or just a crappy player that has been lucky up to this point, then the above analysis is very flawed and I probably make this call. However, if MP has played a solid game up until now I want no part of this hand.

Pocket JJ usually doesn't hold up well in a multi-way pot.

Hope this helps.

[/ QUOTE ]

MP had K K so your read was right on
Turk
06-09-2005, 01:21 AM
[ QUOTE ]
Are you Turk41? I play more tournaments with a "turk41" than anyone else.

[/ QUOTE ]



No, not me, but I also see this player a bunch
lastchance
06-09-2005, 01:23 AM
I think this is pretty clear push.
Myst
06-09-2005, 01:34 AM
If MP's been playing real tight, the best you can hope for is AK.. and even thats unlikely, for she would have reraised all in. It smells like a monster. You gotta fold.
GoldenHorde
06-09-2005, 01:37 AM
Unless I know MP to be a donk who wouldn't protect a medium pair that call scares me and I lay this down.
lastchance
06-09-2005, 01:38 AM
I assume my opponents suck at poker. I'm not calling a single hand here, and I don't think anyone sane does either, not that it affects my decision.

UTG's push was only 4x BB. He was getting short, and his pushing range is going to be wide for UTG. (44+, A7+, KJ+?, at least)

A sane MP's gotta have at least 88-AA, AK-AQ as a calling range, and people will be wider than that.

I think the call could mean mid PP at least as often as it means AA-QQ.

So, that's why I push here, plus the fact I have 5x BB.
GoldenHorde
06-09-2005, 01:43 AM
I think this is a hand where the buyin of the tournament is relevant.
Turk
06-09-2005, 01:48 AM
Party. The buy in is $22
citanul
06-09-2005, 01:48 AM
meh, the buyin is unimportant. you're only saying that the buyin is important because you want some implied reads. that gets to the real problem. this is very read dependent. a lot of money can be either made or lost by making mistakes or good plays in this spot.

it is frequent that the worst hand that a person is going to call like that with at the higher buyins is going to be AK, but not always. it's dependent on the
particular donkey you're playing against.

i think it's important that people get off the whole "buyin dependent" thing in some spots, it's just another way of saying "got any reads?"

in this spot though, i don't konw if you can get away from jj. this does however, become a spot i think where you might consider a stop and go.

citanul
lastchance
06-09-2005, 01:49 AM
Oh, and I was assuming low buy-in = donkish opponents. Throw out most of my advice if opponents are good.
GoldenHorde
06-09-2005, 02:02 AM
[ QUOTE ]
meh, the buyin is unimportant. you're only saying that the buyin is important because you want some implied reads.

[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly often the only reads when 4+ tabling and/or browsing the web are implied reads.

In a $10 my money is in the pot almost immediately in a $100 or higher I probably lay this down, anything in between im quickly browsing my HH to see if I can pick anything up before timer runs out.