Is check-calling the best?

[J.R.]

This hand was played by a friend and has some similarity to a number of recent threads that have shown there can be value in the seemingly anti-S&M strategy of calling the whole way. Although I disagree with the pre-flop play, I think the post-flop decision presents a somewhat common and interesting situation (being bet into by a pre-flop aggressor while holding a big A headsup).

Decent post-flop, loose pre-flop EP who has not been very aggressive raises, all fold to friend who calls with AKo in LP. This should be three-bet IMO, and I think my friend now agrees with me. Comments?

Headsup, the flop comes AK3 rainbow. EP bets, what should my friend do?

I advocated calling. If EP had an underpair, AQ, AJs or anything but AA or KK they are betting a hand that is a big underdog. EP was a desent post-flop player who was not overly aggressive, which means that they would probably lay down an underpair to a raise here.

If EP has an underpair you are a big favorite with top 2 and you are not going to give any free cards because you have position. If EP has the unlikely AA or KK you save some bets. Given the board there is only one way for KK and AA to be there, so it is likely my friend is ahead here. Would anyone else choose to just call it down and only bet if checked to? Against an aggressive, less straight-forward player I might raise the turn here, but against a more typical player, is calling the whole way the right strategy or weak poker?


Irrelevant results....
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My friend raised on the flop, EP three-bet, and my friend called it down to see EP's AA.

[Bob T.]

I might have called until the river, and then raised. When I get three bet on the river by the nuts, I call and whimper back to my corner. Usually, with this betting pattern, you won't be raised on the river, and if you are ahead, you will also likely be called by any reasonable hand.

Good Luck,
Play Well,

Bob T.

[Michael Davis]

I don't know why you would say calling the whole way is an anti-SM strategy. Clearly there are situations against certain players with certain hands that call for this type of play.

Mike

[J.R.]

I didn't. I called it a seemingly anti-S&M strategy. I think S&M advocates a general style of play that is tight/aggressive and typically views calling, especially in heads up situtations, as a less than optimal alternative. That is why I posted this hand. Do you think this is a situation where calling is superior to more aggressive approach?

[J.R.]

I was not sure about the river. If a player bets into me on the flop, bets into me on the turn, and bets into me again on the river, wouldn't bells be going off that I probably had an ace? I quess there are more combinations of AJs, AQ, AK, KQs, QQ, JJ, and TT than the one each of KK and AA, but of these, he would only probably keep betting AJs, AK, AQ, KK and AA, of which AA and KK are the less likely options given there are only one combination of each. Maybe I should raise the river here. Thanks.

[bernie]

the check/call tactic can be very effective in HU hands. it loses quite a bit, however, when the pot is multiway. HU, you have the luxury of controlling more of how much you want to pay to call down. no fear of a raise behind you...

on this hand, i wouldve check/called, but then raised the river against a typical player. UNLESS i have a good read on your opponent. you said he wasnt THAT aggressive. 2 things to watch for on players....many ignore it...they may be loose, so their preflop standards are lower. thats where many stop the assessment. BUT, their raising standards preflop may be very tight and more easily defined.

so in this case, depending on how i read the guys bet rythym, and other subtleties, i may just call him down the whole way. example, im watching him hardly break stride in any bet the whole way. almost betting with urgency....call down.

the typical player isnt aware enough to do reverse tells, they play with pretty set rythyms based on emotion during a hand. some, however, hide it very well. but remember, to hide it real well, you have to be a little jaded/emotionally hardened from the game...ie...being able to detach your emotion from the hand. the typical player doesnt. they play hands/situations the way they react to similar confrontations in other things they do in life. it's ingrained in them.

anyway...im goin' too deep on this... /forums/images/icons/wink.gif

have a good one...

b

[bernie]

"I think S&M advocates a general style of play that is tight/aggressive and typically views calling, especially in heads up situtations, as a less than optimal alternative"

you may want to reread the shorthanded/HU section of the book. it actually advocates this check/call play in this situation and explains why....

b