AQo in Loose Game

[Mangatang]

Very loose online microlimit.

I have A /forums/images/icons/heart.gif Q /forums/images/icons/club.gif at UTG+2.

UTG limps, UTG+1 folds, I raise, everyone except CO call.

Q: Should I have raised this, or even been in the hand with AQo in a very loose game in early position? I raised to try to limit the field, but as you can see, it didn't work.

That's 8 to see the flop with 2 SBs each.

Flop: K /forums/images/icons/heart.gif Q /forums/images/icons/spade.gif 5 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif

UTG bet, we all called except a LP.

Q: Should I have called this when there is almost certainly a K out there?

That's 7 to see the turn with 22 SBs in the pot.

Turn: [K /forums/images/icons/heart.gif Q /forums/images/icons/spade.gif 5 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif] A /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif

Nice! UTG bet, I raise, folds until button calls, UTG reraise, I cap, call, call.

3 players to see river with 23 BBs in the pot.

River: [K /forums/images/icons/heart.gif Q /forums/images/icons/spade.gif 5 /forums/images/icons/spade.gif] A /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif T /forums/images/icons/club.gif

Ouch! UTG bet, call, call.

I had to call with such a giant pot.

Results to come.

[haakee]

Yes, you should raise before the flop. It's likely you have the best hand here. AQo will still win more than its fair share of pots against 7 opponents.

I would call the flop, there are already 17 small bets in the pot. You may not have the best hand, but an Ace or Queen probably gives you the best hand and you have pot odds to draw.

[Ed Miller]

If you are simply guaranteed to have everyone call your preflop raise, then maybe you should limp... though I'm not sure I've ever played in a game where every hand so many cold-called a raise.

If you are going to play the hand on the flop, I think you need to raise. You need to clear out the riff-raff (single spades and, for instance, stiff Jacks) so that if you hit one of your five (four?) outs on the turn, that you won't get spanked by a redraw on the river. You may (possibly?) encounter someone who will be willing to lay down his top pair/no kicker when you raise, also.

Having said that, I might have mucked on the flop. There is probably a flush draw... probably at least one straight draw... and probably a King out there. So you are likely drawing, and there are lots of redraws that can kill your hand. Furthermore, the worst person in the world bet out, and now you have the whole table to act behind you. This is a flop that will hit many people. You could easily find yourself trapped for several bets and drawing slim.

I also would not have capped the turn. You are likely behind... probably to JT or possibly a set.

[bernie]

this hand is playable, IF you know how to get rid of it post flop...

your preraise.....you should know, unless youre new to the table, what youre chances are of thinning the field....BUT if in doubt, raise....

post flop.....id say youre behind....you 'could' fold this here....you only have 4 outs, a possible raise behind even though its a passive table...and your A may make someone a str8. this isnt that great a flop for ya...

turn....overplayed...a passive player is this active on the turn? im just calling his raise here at best....not capping.

"I had to call with such a giant pot."

i hate this line....you called because either
A: you were hoping to god your hand was going to hold up
B: you didnt have a read to fold...or ignored the read

a passive table with someone 3 betting a turn, after betting the whole way? when passive players show that much strength into a field, your beat. i wouldve folded it on the river and been suprised if this player is playing out of his comfort zone to where my 2 pair would hold up. you really think hes playing this strong with a hand you can beat? you actually had 2 spots to get out of this hand. the turn, after being 3 bet, and river...with a possibility of leaving on the flop as stated above...

if this table was loose/passive preflop, but aggressive post flop, id fold this preflop...as it can be very tough to play postflop on this type of table...

b

[bernie]

i like the thought of raise/folding the turn much better than calling. if 3 bet on the flop you can get rid of it right there...

i edited my original, above, because i didnt advocate a call in my initial response to the poster. i thought i did.

raise/fold the flop...

b

[Mangatang]

Thanks for the input.

It turns out, I had the raiser beat. He showed K /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif T /forums/images/icons/spade.gif for a smaller two pair. The button beat me with J /forums/images/icons/club.gif 6 /forums/images/icons/diamond.gif for the strait. Neither had a flush draw. For the life of me, I don't know why the button didn't raise his nut strait at the end, maybe he thought it was a 3-way split?

Bernie, when I said, "I had to call with such a giant pot", I meant that the pot had 24 BBs to my one to call. That means if I think I have just a 4% chance of winning with the AQ I should call. 4% is not a whole hellova lot to overcome. I would have called with just top pair for that amount.

When I look back, my only good chance to get out was on the flop.

Conserning my turn 4-bet, I should have just called his 3-bet. I remember now HPFAP saying (section on loose games) that when the pot gets big, you main goal is to win the pot. My 4-bet was an atempt to value bet. But since the pot was so large already, I should have just called. If I win, the pot is still big, if I lose (possible strait, trips, flush draw) I save a bet.

Later.

[Ed Miller]

Note that if you had raised the flop, you probably would have won this hand as Mr. Stiff Jack would probably have mucked.

[Ed Miller]

It just hit me... J6o, huh? I think the button's play in this hand is an early favorite for the Worst Played Poker Hand of 2003 award. Called two cold preflop with J6o. Called a flop bet with squat nothing (with two overcards to his squat nothing). Called four bets on the turn with a gutshot. And then... the kicker... smooth-called on the end with the nuts. In fact, I'm not sure any single hand could possibly have been played any worse, short of folding on the end with the nuts...

[bernie]

i think its worse than 4% on this call...a guy, on a passive table has shown strength every street....and he gets 1 caller ahead of you on the river with this board. who just withstood a hailstorm of chips on the turn. true, he couldve been on a flush draw....but then you have to account for the bettor. youre beat. not many passive players will bluff in this situation.

as far as maximizing your chances, you did, you got the button to fold. but the cold caller behind you isnt folding for 2 more bets. so this isnt a value bet on the cap. THAT coldcaller is who you can be watching for. he just called 4BB on the turn...think about it when the river hits like this.

"When I look back, my only good chance to get out was on the flop."

this is based on hindsight and not on your read of the table texture. your drawing to 4 outs and he's indicating at least a set...hence, you dont hit your 4 outs, youre done....add to that, the coldcaller....

you shouldve saved 2 BBs on this hand if you follow your read

b