Thinking of moving up to 5/10 6-max

[QBert]

Hi there,

I have been beating Party 2/4 and 3/6 for 2BB/100 over 20k hands. I have amassed a large bankroll and am considering moving up to 5/10 6-max. I have played in 6-max before and found the aggression scary and it much more difficult to read players, hence difficult to make the right plays. However, I believe my game is good and I'd like to give it a shot over enough hands to really know if I am a winning or losing player in that game. I have over 600BB available for 5/10 6-max.

My question is what are the major differences/hurdles I will have to overcome moving from the passive 2/4 and 3/6 games to aggressive shorthanded 5/10 games? How will I need to adjust my game? Thanks for any advice you can give.

Edit: I thought it might be useful to add that I have some limited stats (<3k hands) from earlier attempts at 5/10 6-max. They are quite abysmal but I would like some constructive criticism of the stats as well--I believe the BB/100 results are based on small sample size more than bad play but please enlighten me if I am wrong.

Total Hands: 2840
VPIP: 26.23
Fold SB to Steal: 75.79
Fold BB to Steal: 72.50
Att. to Steal: 36.91
Won $ WSF: 38.02
BB/100: -2.78
WtSD: 27.22
Won $ at SD: 58.26
PFR: 14.12
PFA: 2.82

[Subby]

My advice would be to not jump straight from full ring to 5/10 6m.

Any reason you don't want to try playing short handed at your current limits?

[BusterStacks]

don't do it if you value your happiness/sanity/money.

[TStoneMBD]

the game is much more profitable than 3/6 if you know how to play shorthanded situations and are a good postflop player. make the jump.

[QBert]

I have played 1/2 6-max (the only available shorthanded game on Party below 5/10) and crushed the game, but the limit is too low and I found the play *way* more passive than 5/10 so it wasn't really a good primer. I simply want to make more money than is possible to make it these low limits. Even making 3BB/100 is only about $6/hr at 1/2 (assuming 100 hands/hr).

[RunDownHouse]

[ QUOTE ]
Any reason you don't want to try playing short handed at your current limits?

[/ QUOTE ]
If the answer is, "Party doesn't have 2/4 and 3/6," you really need to get out of that bubble. Hunt down some bonuses at other sites and work them off at those levels.

EDIT: he answered that part

[Subby]

When you say you crushed the game, did you turn it into a fine powder? Or was it just a bunch of smoking rubble?

For me, moving to 5/10 from 1/2 was more psychological than anything. Honestly, I didn't even do that well at 1/2. But 5/10 made me focus more while making allowances for my ADD. And I was/am properly bankrolled. As long as you arent taking into consideration the amounts being wagered, you'll be fine.

And read this forum, post hands, review PT, blah, blah, blah...

[Girchuck]

The most important adjustment you will need to make is blind defence. You will need to defend your blinds much more than you used to. You will need to improve your headsup play if you want to defend blinds effectively.
Other adjustments are: no more open-limping until you are crushing the game (and then you probably will not be tempted to open limp any more), Recognizing isolation plays, frequently raising to isolate a loose limper, learning appropriate use of loose passive plays (calling down a LAG with marginal hands), reading and posting on HUSH a lot more than you used to and learning from it. I am sure there are others.

[spydog]

If you haven't done so already, open an account at the following sites and get rakeback/bonus/reload money while playing 2/4 or 3/6 shorthanded:

Ultimate Bet: 2/4, 3/6
Absolute: 2/4, 3/6
Poker Stars: 2/4, 3/6
PokerRoom: 2/4, 3/6 (5max)
Paradise: 3/6 (5max)

These games will be more difficult than PP 1/2, and will ease you into the 5/10 game at PP while earning you some decent bonuses in the meantime.

Also, play 2 tables at a time and base your decisions on detailed notes that you take on your opponents, rather than relying on stats like 62/13/1.4.

Good luck.

[QBert]

I think the difference between 5/10 and 1/2 6-max is more than just psychological. 5/10 features much better players. They are more aggressive and play much better postflop (preflop as well, but postflop is more important). 1/2 features many preflop limpers. 5/10 players usually follow the mantra: raise or fold.

And regarding your question about 1/2 I realize I haven't played as many hands as I thought so sample size eliminates the usefulness of any stats but I found the games very easy and beat them handily.

[Subby]

[ QUOTE ]
5/10 features much better players.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, but there are still plenty of donks. Plenty. Table selection is pretty important at this level, imo...

Hell, I am probably one of them and just don't know it yet. Look me up when you start playing up here. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[QBert]

The reason I play almost exclusively on Party is that the players are poor. Do you think 3/6 short on UB, for example, would be an easier game than 5/10 on Party? If not, I may as well go straight to 5/10 on Party (I am bankrolled) as this would be more profitable. Thoughts?

[RunDownHouse]

That's making the assumption that going straight to 5/10 on Party is profitable at all.

[og5]

I play on UB, it's about a 50/50 mix of TAGs/fish in 2/4. If there were more games this would be great, but there are 3-5 at each level.

[spydog]

[ QUOTE ]
The reason I play almost exclusively on Party is that the players are poor. Do you think 3/6 short on UB, for example, would be an easier game than 5/10 on Party? If not, I may as well go straight to 5/10 on Party (I am bankrolled) as this would be more profitable. Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you have 600BBs for 5/10, then set aside 150BBs and give it a shot. If you feel uncomfortable at any time then I suggest to drop down to 2/4 or 3/6 until you feel more comfortable with higher aggression (than 1/2). Good luck.

[DMBFan23]

IMO 5/10 6max on UB is just as good a game as Party 5/10 6max

[bobbyi]

So you are planning to move to a limit almost double what you currently play (3/6 to 5/10) and simultaneously switch from full games to short games? That seems like a really bad idea. I'm sure plenty of people have done things like that and some have succeeded, just like some people out there have jumped from 2/4 to 20/40 and had it work out and so forth. But that doesn't mean it's a sensible way to move up the limits. You should either get in some real time at 5/10 full first (it plays similar to 3/6 and has lower variance than 5/10 short) or get some time at 3/6 short (or both).

[mungpo]

You are folding your BB way too much and you are not going to showdown enough.

If you value money, then I suggest that you play 2/4 at PokerStars or a similar site that others have suggested.

[QBert]

I agree I have a problem with WtSD %. I have always considered a great deal of my profit to come from folding hopeless hands rather than calling down with them. I am now calling down with middle pair almost regardless in shorthanded games simply because I have been bluffed so much (or attempted bluffed--i.e., raised on the river after I suddenly bet out by an aggressive player jamming his flush draw, which missed).

As far as blind defence, that may be a sample size issue. I seem to be getting T5o and such in my blinds. My defence rules shorthanded are usually any two 9 or higher, Qxs, Kxs, Axs, any ace, suited connectors/one-gaps, pocket pairs, J8s.

Do you think I need to loosen up more than this in BB?

[baronzeus]

I'm one of the people who made the jump from 1/2 6max (which I literally crushed, > 4 BB/100) I was fortunate to hit an upswing as soon as I switched to 5/10, which boosted my confidence. Here's what I think is the difference.

Blind defense is MUCH more important. Any fish knows that raising when it's folded around is +EV against tight players. I fold my BB about 50% to steals.

Passive can be better than aggressive. Just because someone is a maniac doesn't mean you have to raise all of their bets--just be selectively aggressive, and call down with hands that you think have a good chance of being the best.

Milking for bets is much much more important.

The MOST important thing to me is table selection. There are so many VPIP 45+ tables out there that I refuse to sit at a table with VPIP < 40. There's just no reason to.

TILT. If you've read a couple of my posts, you know that I have tilted a few times costing me around 12 BBs. Tilt in 6max, especially agaisnt maniacs and assmonkeys, can kill your bankroll.

These are just the things I've noticed. Let me know if you agree/disagree