2/5 at the Wynn - Set Under Pressure on the River

[GFunk911]

Table is playing fairly middle of the road preflop. People going waaaay too far with their hands postflop. Villian just sat an orbit ago with 5k, I had 1.5k and was chip leader or very close to it. The Wynn games are uncapped.

5/images/graemlins/club.gif 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif in the Cutoff. EP limps, Villian in MP limps, MP limps, I limp, SB mucks and BB raps.

7/images/graemlins/club.gif 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif

Villian bets 20 into 25, MP calls, I make it 85, only Villian calls. Pot is ~210

Turn: K /images/graemlins/diamond.gif

He checks I check behind

River: 4/images/graemlins/spade.gif

He checks again. I bet 135, he makes it 500.

Action?

Edit: All my reads on the guy are stereotypical (i.e. sat with more than twice as much as anyone at the table). He was a young guy, didn't look like a "poker douchebag" (sunglasses, etc).

[nokona13]

I've never played live with stacks anywhere near this big, so...

Seems like he's representing the missed c/r on the turn with the flush. A question I'd like to see addressed in this thread would be whether the fact that villain sat down with 3x the other big stack and is starting otu pretty aggressive here would make you any more likely to call. I'm not sure I'd call here with no reads myself, but again, what do I know...

[AceHiStation]

I call... I can't imagine this guys checking his flush on the river after missing his check/raise or check/call/lead on the turn. I put him on a bluff draw... Possibly has a pair of tens. The way you played the hand appears as if you tried to steal the flop and slowed down at the turn which makes your river bet look like a steal. I call this down no question, if he's crafty enough to double-check that to the river... good for him, pay the man his money.

[Voltron87]

I would advocate a call here.

Is he going to check to you twice on the turn and river with a flush? It looks like he is trying to put you off your hand, this kind of depends on what his read of you is.

[thabadguy]

[ QUOTE ]
pay the man his money.

[/ QUOTE ]
I think you wanna say "pay that man hiss maaney."
Oh, and i call, no doubt.

[deadmoney98]

[ QUOTE ]
I call... I can't imagine this guys checking his flush on the river after missing his check/raise or check/call/lead on the turn. I put him on a bluff draw... Possibly has a pair of tens. The way you played the hand appears as if you tried to steal the flop and slowed down at the turn which makes your river bet look like a steal. I call this down no question, if he's crafty enough to double-check that to the river... good for him, pay the man his money.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree completely with this, no way he checks again with a made flush, he probably has 2 pair (K-10). Though is 6-8 a possible holding for villain??? Also, why not check this down if you are going to fold to a river check-raise?

[GFunk911]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I call... I can't imagine this guys checking his flush on the river after missing his check/raise or check/call/lead on the turn. I put him on a bluff draw... Possibly has a pair of tens. The way you played the hand appears as if you tried to steal the flop and slowed down at the turn which makes your river bet look like a steal. I call this down no question, if he's crafty enough to double-check that to the river... good for him, pay the man his money.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree completely with this, no way he checks again with a made flush, he probably has 2 pair (K-10). Though is 6-8 a possible holding for villain??? Also, why not check this down if you are going to fold to a river check-raise?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not saying this is the case here. Hypothetical situation, where if i bet 2/3 pot, the times he doesn't fold, 80% of the time he'll call and MHIG, 20% of the time he check raises and I lay down, it's certainly right to bet here, even if some of the 20% he pushes me off the best hand.

There was too much value to check the river behind, a proverbial "thick" value bet. Mentally I was a little timid, playing above my comfort zone against the new "BSD" at the table, but I was able to (I feel 100% correctly) bet the river.

[nokona13]

Okay, so I see this a fair amount, where people say, if he's got it in him to check the nuts twice, pay him off. Say you're the villain here, and you hold AdJd. If you read OP as pretty aggressive against weakness, would you ever double check? If strong players would generally call pretty sizeable re-raises on the river, reading it as a steal, doesn't that make it a pretty decent mix-it-up type of play against a strong player? I can just see posting a hand like this with myself as villain and have people tell me I'm a luckbox for having trips bet on the river... Or is the assumption that if opponenet has a hand strong enough to call a c/r on the river, you could have built a bigger pot on the trun and gotten him to committ even more money?

[Voltron87]

I was kind of asking rhetorically, "would this player do this?" not "aw gee, no one checks the nuts twice!". Some players just won't check the nuts to you on the river, its just not a play they do. There are players I play with where I'd be extremely skeptical of this overbet, and there are players who don't overbet much.

I check behind a fair amount, but usually not here, not with a hand as strong as trips against an unknown.

[GFunk911]

I called, he turned over J/images/graemlins/diamond.gif 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif for the flush. I maintain I had to bet the river, and had to then call the raise, although an argument could be made for folding to the raise.

[thabadguy]

Ballsy play by him, checking twice in a row with made flush, not much u can do.

[GFunk911]

[ QUOTE ]
Ballsy play by him, checking twice in a row with made flush, not much u can do.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right. The 2nd check definitely made me not put him on the flush. Once I show weakness on the turn and he checks to me again, I don't think I can get away from this with no read.