I am a passive weenie

[Ghazban]

No reads, as I posted in the CO and am still in my first orbit. I raised with AK preflop once before, got one caller, bet the pot on a Q22 flop, got called then checked down turn and river to lose to QJo (different villain, but this is the only hand the table has seen me play).

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $.50 BB (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

saw flop|<font color="#C00000">saw showdown</font>

MP1 ($59.85)
MP2 ($42.95)
MP3 ($48.75)
CO ($55.30)
Button ($22.75)
<font color="#C00000">SB ($48.70)</font>
BB ($15.65)
UTG ($44.50)
<font color="#C00000">Hero ($39.75)</font>

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $1.75</font>, <font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, SB calls $1.50, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: ($4) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $4</font>, Hero calls $4.

Turn: ($12) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $12</font>, Hero calls $12.

River: ($36) 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">SB bets $30.95 (All-In)</font>, Hero calls $22 (All-In).

Final Pot: $88.95

[PinkSteel]

Make it $15 on the flop?

[gulebjorn]

Haha, this is the kind of thing I see myself doing now and then, and i always beat myself up about it afterwards. Find out on the flop if your hand is good. If not, find out on the turn. But don't give away your stack with TPTK like that. (i tell myself while reloading)

[Ghazban]

[ QUOTE ]
Make it $15 on the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you get called, then what's the plan for a heart turn? what about a non heart turn? What about an ace or king on the turn? If you get 3bet on the flop, are you folding?

[subzero]

[ QUOTE ]
Make it $15 on the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]
I like this line. I want to see how much he likes his hand. If he reraises or comes out betting on the turn, he probably can beat top pair (and I fold). I'd rather spend a little money on a flop raise instead of more money on turn and river calls.

[jkkkk]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Make it $15 on the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you get called, then what's the plan for a heart turn? what about a non heart turn? What about an ace or king on the turn? If you get 3bet on the flop, are you folding?

[/ QUOTE ]

check through / fold.

[PinkSteel]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Make it $15 on the flop?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you get called, then what's the plan for a heart turn? what about a non heart turn? What about an ace or king on the turn? If you get 3bet on the flop, are you folding?

[/ QUOTE ]

I was afraid you'd ask. I fold to a flop 3-bet, and to aggression on the turn, heart or no. I might call a very modest turn bet.

I'm really not sure the raise is substantially better than your line; yours certainly controls pot size better.

But if villain calls a flop raise to $15, I now have the info I need to bail out of this unimproved, without investing much more on turn or river calls.

[gulebjorn]

[ QUOTE ]
If you get called, then what's the plan for a heart turn? what about a non heart turn? What about an ace or king on the turn? If you get 3bet on the flop, are you folding?


[/ QUOTE ]

First of all, i'd raise less on the flop. 3 x his bet, 12$ would seem a little better.

If he 3-bets, i'm folding. He has top pair beat.

Heart turn: fold if it's a decent bet (pot size), raise if it looks weak and find out if he's really holding the flush. If he checks, i'd bet about 2/3 pot.

Non-heart turn: if it's a Q or J, i'd fear KQ or KJ and I'd pretty much fold to anything but a real weak bet. Any other card, i'm calling if it's a weak bet, folding if it's a strong bet. Whatever hits, if he checks, i'd bet 1/2 pot.

Ace or King on the turn: make some money, bet 3/4 - full pot

I'm not saying this is the right way to do this, but this is how i'd play it.

[gulebjorn]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm really not sure the raise is substantially better than your line; yours certainly controls pot size better.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uhm, they got all the money in... that's not controlling pot size

[PinkSteel]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I'm really not sure the raise is substantially better than your line; yours certainly controls pot size better.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uhm, they got all the money in... that's not controlling pot size

[/ QUOTE ]

Doh! Don't confuse me with facts! /images/graemlins/blush.gif

That's the trick with PL/NL at 100BB stacks -- a real preflop raise, followed by pot-sized bets on each street, will have you all-in by the river, even just heads-up. And if you're just calling, you may get there without even knowing where you are.

But with a hand like this especially, Hero HIT the flop. What's wrong with letting villain hang himself? It's not clear from his flop bet that he's angling to get Hero all-in by the river. I would still raise to effectively guard against that possibility, but at the flop, flat calling feels like reasonable pot control. (I don't know who I'm arguing with....)

[wtfsvi]

Can you have any other hand than a strong K when you flat call the flop? Suppose QQ or JJ is possible maybe. When you call the turn, he should know with near absolute certainty what you have. (That is if he knows you, which he doesn't, so I suppose I'm just talking rubbish.)

I think the turn is a push or fold at least.

[Ghazban]

I find it somewhat amusing that everybody always assumes hero loses a hand when it gets posted here. Villain in this hand showed K8s (not hearts) and MHIG. This isn't my standard line in this situation, but I just had one of those weird unexplainable feelings that I was way ahead so I let him hang himself.