Facing a check raise on the turn

[MarkD]

1-2 PP Holdem Game. I had just sat down, posted the blinds and am now on the button and have Ad Js.

Pre-flop:
3 limpers to me, I raise, BB reraises and one limper folds. 4 players see the flop with 13 bets in the pot.

Flop: 7h 8h As
BB bets, first limper calls, I raise, BB and limper call. 3 players see turn with 22 Sb's in the pot.

Turn: 2s
Checked to me, I bet, BB check raises, limper folds. I debate what to do. I put BB on AK but haven't seen him play any hands yet so decide to call him down.

River: 4d
He bets, I call, he shows Ah Ks.

All thoughts are apreciated, I'm most interested in how you would handle the turn.

[Ed Miller]

I would muck on the turn for sure. A 3-bet from a BB is a pretty big power move... and I would be watching out for him for the rest of the hand. Once he checkraises me on the turn (another big power move) I'm done.

[Yerma]

"1-2 PP Holdem Game. I had just sat down, posted the blinds and am now on the button and have Ad Js.

Pre-flop:
3 limpers to me, I raise, BB reraises and one limper folds. 4 players see the flop with 13 bets in the pot."

I'm hoping that you are in cutoff or on the button when you do this. Otherwise, I don't think you have a play here at all.

"Flop: 7h 8h As
BB bets, first limper calls, I raise, BB and limper call. 3 players see turn with 22 Sb's in the pot."

I don't think you have a raise here at all. I think your hand is possibly foldable but that if you are going to continue, you should just call. It's not logical for you to just call the 3-bet preflop and then decide that you have a big hand here. Also, you should always feel welcome to look at a bad flop and so defer aggression until a blank comes down on the turn.

"Turn: 2s
Checked to me, I bet, BB check raises, limper folds. I debate what to do. I put BB on AK but haven't seen him play any hands yet so decide to call him down."

Well, he can't have KK and do this, can he? It's very tempting to want to see that hand but once you have gained enough experience at the game, you're better off letting other players take him to showdown and gather your information for you. You should be good enough at this game, having played many similar hands before, to judge correctly without forcing a showdown.

By the way, having stated the results I would note that the big blind played this hand very well. He showed the appropriate aggression preflop. And on the flop, he showed an ability to plan out his strategy on future betting streets in advance based on his read of you that you would likely not allow a free card on the turn.

Your own strategy was muddled because you are still a little unclear of the proper preflop thresholds. This problem appeared to have trickled down in your play on all betting rounds. It looks like you're saying that: "AJ is strong enough." Don't be too sure. A rational player will not play even AQ from the big blind the way that he did. His 3-bet from the big blind preflop is a stronger move than you appear to believe.

"River: 4d
He bets, I call, he shows Ah Ks.

All thoughts are apreciated, I'm most interested in how you would handle the turn."

[PokerPrince]

Fold to the turn checkraise. His move on the turn is a pretty powerful statement and screams AK.

PokerPrince

[MarkD]

I was on the button in this hand. You don't consider AJo a playable hand against two limpers unless you are in Cutoff or Button?

I agree BB played his AK very well and I should have folded on the turn. But if I just call on the flop instead of raising and a blank comes on the turn you think I should raise?

Assuming I would have folded to the check raise on the turn during the original hand and assuming I call the flop and raise the turn my opponent will either reraise or fold. If he reraises I'd muck and I lose an extra small bet instead of the intial way the hand played out. If he calls then on the river he will either bet into me again, at which point I think I'd have to call (costing me an extra 3 small bets relative to raising the flop). If he checks and I check it down I still lose an extra small bet relative to raising the flop. If he checks and I bet then I lose an extra 3 bets.

All in all I can't see why the flop raise would be wrong (assuming I have zero information about my oponent). Even if he decides to call me down while I bet his hand for him I still don't do that bad.

[Yerma]

"I was on the button in this hand. You don't consider AJo a playable hand against two limpers unless you are in Cutoff or Button?"

Forgive me, I thought the original post said that there were 3 limpers to you. No, I don't think AJo is a play in the middle when three call to you.

"I agree BB played his AK very well and I should have folded on the turn. But if I just call on the flop instead of raising and a blank comes on the turn you think I should raise?"

Yes, if a blank comes on the turn you should raise although you don't necessarily expect to have the best hand.

"Assuming I would have folded to the check raise on the turn during the original hand and assuming I call the flop and raise the turn my opponent will either reraise or fold. If he reraises I'd muck and I lose an extra small bet instead of the intial way the hand played out. If he calls then on the river he will either bet into me again, at which point I think I'd have to call (costing me an extra 3 small bets relative to raising the flop). If he checks and I check it down I still lose an extra small bet relative to raising the flop. If he checks and I bet then I lose an extra 3 bets."

He'll probably not reraise you on the turn with AK.

Your play cost you 4BB post-flop. If you fold to the check-raise on the turn you lose 2BB post-flop. If you raise the turn and check through on the river you lose 2.5BB but you see the showdown and there's some equity in that--well worth the 0.5BB to see if he's just acting out of line. If he stop and goes you on the river you don't have to call and probably should not.

"All in all I can't see why the flop raise would be wrong (assuming I have zero information about my oponent). Even if he decides to call me down while I bet his hand for him I still don't do that bad. "

Min cost to see the showdown when you're unclear whether your hand is good or not. That's why your flop-raise is wrong. Also, I'm saying that it's unclear that you should call any bets on the flop. You could just fold there and that may just be the right thing to do against typical opponents.

[Rube]

I'd fold when check raised on the turn, especially since you've played a full rotation and haven't seen BB play any hands and the first hand he plays is a 3-bet from the big blind