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View Full Version : Fun 3-6-12 hold-em hand with Pro-player


texag97
01-05-2003, 06:50 PM
Here is a hand that occurred this weekend at Grand Casino Coushatta in Kinder, LA. I had just been moved from my original table to a new table so I was just getting adjusted to everyone. The first thing I noticed was one player who loved to raise preflop. He raised probably the first 4 of 5 hands that I saw, and he was a couple of players to my left. Then this hand came up:

I hold KK in the big blind, and sure enough the aggressive player raises. 6 or 7 players call, and I smooth call. My thoughts on calling were a) if the flop comes ace-high with 8 players in, I'm probably beat immediately so I'll see the flop first and b) if I reraised, the aggressive player would cap it and we would have 5 or 6 players to the river with any and every draw (therefore maximizing my chance of being run down at the river). Basically, I wanted to see the flop and thin the field post flop.

Flop comes: 2 5 8 rainbow

I check, hoping to check-raise the original raiser...he checks and it checks around?!?!?!

Turn: black 9

I lead out with $6 bet...original raiser makes it $12...everyone folds to me...I make it $18...he makes it $24. At this point, the only hand I can put him on is something like A9. If he had a pocket pair of 9 or higher he would have bet on the flop.

River: black 9

At this point, my heart sinks as I am 99% sure that I am beat by a two out catch so I check, he bets $12 and I call just to show my hand. Sure enough, he shows Q9h for running trips and I show my busted KK. Cool thing was, he was nice as could be about it because he knew he got lucky. He kinda shrugged his shoulders like he was sorry.

Soon after this hand the seat two spots to his left came open and I asked for a seat change, hoping to reraise him preflop with my good hands to get heads-up. Well, it never happened. 10 minutes after I moved, he left.

It was the next day when I saw the same player in the 10/20 game that I found out who this player was. Jimmy Tran from Houston, TX. I had never heard of him, but I was told he was a top tournament pro who sometimes plays in Louisiana for fun. I looked him up on the internet, and sure enough I found him - Jimmy Tran (http://www.pokerpages.com/tournament/result3193.htm). I figure it's not everyday that someone is able to play in a low limit game against top players, and that is why I thought I would post the hand.

Jeffage
01-05-2003, 08:06 PM
No offense, but not reraising your KK here out of the BBhere with 6 or 7 people in an already raised pot is...CRIMINAL and it's leaving tons of money on the table. You sound like you were worried the aggro would cap it, but so what? That's GREAT for your hand and you would get tons of value of of your hand. Plus all those players in makes it more likely most of the aces are out. On this hand, I would have bet/raised at just about every opportunity. If your opponent is a pro, I am not impressed...4 bets on the turns with a pair of 9s...sounds like a moron to me.

Jeff

Mangatang
01-05-2003, 11:31 PM
Cool story. Is that the Indian reservation casino in Marksville? I'm not sure where Kinder is, but I went to the Marksville casino a long time ago? Just curious.

soda
01-06-2003, 06:06 AM
Common mistake to not three bet here, preflop. You have an ideal situation. KK and a chance for a 6 or 7 way capped pot! Most people don't realize the magnitude of this error.

You should raise here 100% of the time with AA and KK. Not doing so is a costly error.

Oh, and go ahead and bet the flop. Why check?

soda

pudley4
01-06-2003, 01:02 PM
Here is your preflop plan

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
Basically, I wanted to see the flop and thin the field post flop.


[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree with not raising preflop, but at least you have a plan. Now the flop comes and

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
I check, hoping to check-raise the original raiser

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you see the problem here?

Finally:

</font><blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr />
At this point, my heart sinks as I am 99% sure that I am beat by a two out catch so I check, he bets $12 and I call just to show my hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you really are 99% sure, then you need to muck. Also, why would you want to show your hand?

Raise preflop, bet the flop and 3-bet if possible, bet the turn (maybe 3-bet). Bet the river and fold to a raise, or check-call the river.

bernie
01-06-2003, 04:32 PM
"I am 99% sure that I am beat by a two out catch so"

he had more than 2 outs he had 5.


i wouldnt be too enamored with this guy's rep.

this hand is one example why i think tourney players are overated. he played the turn like crap....4 betting with only top pair, marginal kicker against a BB hand getting a free play with a str8 possible on the board? ive seen this type of play from tourney guys before, way overaggressive. because thats what it takes to do decent in tourneys. but that style generally loses in ringgames.... i dont think he's a top player....maybe in tourneys, but certainly not in ring games...

this is why i like the tourney players on my table....i get warm inside the moment they sit down

if only they printed the stats for the amount of cash the tourney players lose back in the ringgames along with how much they win in tourneys....THAT would be an interesting stat, wouldnt it?

b

bernie
01-06-2003, 04:39 PM
i guess it matters whos playing the hand preflop...

criminal?....cmon..

i didnt see you use that term when mason did pretty much the same thing in a hand awhile ago in a 'hand to talk about'. (i think it was mid/early last year)
when he did it, posters praised it.....hmmmmmmm

i wouldve raised, but there are merits to this move....

b

johnb
01-06-2003, 07:52 PM
I think this hand is a classic example of why you need to raise pre-flop and a perfect time to be agressive. Note that if you raise here and lead the flop, Tran probably cannot call with no draw and possibly drawing dead to overcards....

Having said that, my experience with this limit game at this casino is that it is very loose and passive. Big pairs go down in value. Many players see the turn with any sort of inside draw. You get drawn out on a higher % in games like this. I am more likely to just call with 10-10 through Q-Q.

johnb
01-06-2003, 07:55 PM
The Kinder Grand is about 70 miles or so SSE of Marksville. They have a nice poker room that spreads the aforementioned 3-16-12 as its primary low limit holdem game. They have some nice moderate buy in holdem tourneys every weekend. The are about 20 miles north of Lake Charles and draw a lot of Houston players.