Best way to put in the hours

[Justin A]

This is a spinoff from Nate's thread about pro's not playing enough hours for how much they make.

What do you guys think is the best way to put in a lot of hours with the least chance of burnout? In other words, is it better to play 8 hours a day for four days, or something like five hours a day for six days?

What about in one specific day. Say you've decided you want to play a monster eight hours in one day, would you prefer one long marathon session, two four hour sessions, or four or five semi-short sessions?

Finally, what's the best way to motivate yourself? I've found if I set my goal the night before for how many hours to play, I'm much more likely to make it than if I just wing it from day to day. Is there any way you guys can think of to hold yourself accountable, short of offering everyone on the forums $20 if you don't reach your goals?

[warlockjd]

16 hours at least Thurs - Sat nights EST is rule one in my book.

[mosquito]

Looking for an answer myself. There seems to be
a max number of hours I can put in per day, week
or month NO MATTER WHAT.

Anything more and the burnout hits.

I have more flexibility over shorter periods of
time, but there seems to be a clear max in the
monthly or greater range.

Solutions welcomed here too.

[warlockjd]

[ QUOTE ]
What do you guys think is the best way to put in a lot of hours with the least chance of burnout? In other words, is it better to play 8 hours a day for four days, or something like five hours a day for six days?


[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
What about in one specific day

[/ QUOTE ]

I think this is highly dependent on the individual, on the tables, and even on the week (or day) . For me, a mix of the 2 is best. Today, I played about 4 hours,
then took an hour break for workout/laundry/shower, and I'm in about my 5th hour since restarting (9th total) right now.

Tonight, I may go out, go to a live game, or play till 5 am (4 1/2 more hours) depending on my alertness level and how the tables are.

[ QUOTE ]
Finally, what's the best way to motivate yourself?

[/ QUOTE ]

If you're having problems here, preplanning your weekly playing schedule may be helpful.

ALWAYS be willing to revise this schedule as appropriate to take advantage of juicy tables when you are alert, and to avoid tilting away cash when you are not.

[Blackjack]

I'm not as hard on myself on putting in hours because I still geniunely enjoy playing. However, I'd much rather put in 10 quality hours than 16 hours of MUST GRIND MUST GRIND I HAVE TO PLAY MORE HOURS.

Blackjack

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not as hard on myself on putting in hours because I still geniunely enjoy playing. However, I'd much rather put in 10 quality hours than 16 hours of MUST GRIND MUST GRIND I HAVE TO PLAY MORE HOURS.

Blackjack

[/ QUOTE ]

I know what you mean. However, I think that may be part of my problem, is that I never put in hours that are not quality hours. Maybe that's why I get burned out so quickly. When I sit down for a session, I don't browse the internet, I don't chat on AIM, I basically shut out everything else that might distract me. When I'm actually playing I don't feel like I'm forcing myself to grind or something.

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]
ALWAYS be willing to revise this schedule as appropriate to take advantage of juicy tables when you are alert, and to avoid tilting away cash when you are not.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I allow myself to change my weekly schedule, I'll just end up playing a lot less.

[warlockjd]

100% @ 15 hrs < 75% @ 30 hrs

even NL

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]
100% @ 15 hrs < 75% @ 30 hrs

even NL

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah but 100% @ 30 hrs < 100% @ 15 hrs.

[wall_st]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not as hard on myself on putting in hours because I still geniunely enjoy playing. However, I'd much rather put in 10 quality hours than 16 hours of MUST GRIND MUST GRIND I HAVE TO PLAY MORE HOURS.

Blackjack

[/ QUOTE ]

I have found the must grind mentality very hurtful to my overall win rate. It also becomes very frustrating because playing NL I like to build up a stack and then abuse my power at the table. This unfortunately takes time and sometimes my mind or body is not willing to go the extra distance to do so. I guess it becomes a quasi catch 22.

BTW does anyone know the maximum amount of time you can be "away" while maintaing your seat at party poker ? I couldnt find this anywhere.

I have also found that I end up having a lot of breakeven days. These days are some of the most frustrating, because besides a bonus or rakeback, I cannot say that I have really achieved anything through my playing time. These days often result from trying to put in some ridiculous amount of hours

[soah]

[ QUOTE ]
BTW does anyone know the maximum amount of time you can be "away" while maintaing your seat at party poker ? I couldnt find this anywhere.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think it is 25 hands, but I'm not sure.

[Warren Whitmore]

1) In a $/hr sense playing one hour per week is the best amount of time to play. This can be seen by analysing all of the games and seeing that the second best game to play must be worse than the first.

2) Given that the least amount amount of play makes you the most money in $/hr it would follow that the most amount of time that you are willing to play would be determined by the minimum amount of ev you would accept.

3) therefor chose the minimum amount you will accept per hour to play and quite if the game falls under that amount.

4) As your skills improve you may find yourself moving slowly from say 5 hours a week to 40 hours a week.

5) Then you can give yourself a raise and start the process over again.

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]
1) In a $/hr sense playing one hour per week is the best amount of time to play. This can be seen by analysing all of the games and seeing that the second best game to play must be worse than the first.

2) Given that the least amount amount of play makes you the most money in $/hr it would follow that the most amount of time that you are willing to play would be determined by the minimum amount of ev you would accept.

3) therefor chose the minimum amount you will accept per hour to play and quite if the game falls under that amount.

4) As your skills improve you may find yourself moving slowly from say 5 hours a week to 40 hours a week.

5) Then you can give yourself a raise and start the process over again.

[/ QUOTE ]

If I played whenever I was making a $/hr amount that was acceptable to me I'd be playing every waking hour. That's the point of my post. I'm making enough money that I really should be playing much more. This means I'm making plenty of money at all hours of the day pretty much no matter how I feel.

[Dov]

I'm in the same postition as you, basically.

My problem is that I really need more money to move up again so I can play the short hours that I love.

I have found for myself that when I try to 'force' extra hours, I tend to hurt myself more than help.

I try to play at least 1000 hands/day.

If I miss some, I do not try to make them up. I play until I feel like doing something else.

This is largely thanks to Dr Al and 2+2, in that I finally realized and admitted to myself that one of main reasons I play is for compettition. Yes it's to make money, but that is just how you know you are winning.

Once I stopped playing when I wasn't hungry for blood, my win rate improved tremendously.

Since I now know this about myself, my goal is to play as high as possible. That would allow me to play at a level that I can play when I want to, and still have enough money to support my family with.

That is what works for me now.

Hope this helped.

[wall_st]

[ QUOTE ]

If I played whenever I was making a $/hr amount that was acceptable to me I'd be playing every waking hour. That's the point of my post. I'm making enough money that I really should be playing much more. This means I'm making plenty of money at all hours of the day pretty much no matter how I feel.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you feel that maybe subconciously the amount of hours you are currently playing is somewhere around the point of diminishing returns ?

[TStoneMBD]

ive thought about how there should be some sort of drug that doesnt make you selfaware of whats going on and turns you into a robot. you play poker for 10hours a day/4 days a week and only realize you exhist the 3 days a week you arent playing, yet your bank account magically got bigger.

/images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]
ive thought about how there should be some sort of drug that doesnt make you selfaware of whats going on and turns you into a robot. you play poker for 10hours a day/4 days a week and only realize you exhist the 3 days a week you arent playing, yet your bank account magically got bigger.

/images/graemlins/grin.gif /images/graemlins/grin.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Goodness I would be addicted fast.

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

If I played whenever I was making a $/hr amount that was acceptable to me I'd be playing every waking hour. That's the point of my post. I'm making enough money that I really should be playing much more. This means I'm making plenty of money at all hours of the day pretty much no matter how I feel.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you feel that maybe subconciously the amount of hours you are currently playing is somewhere around the point of diminishing returns ?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes and no. The nature of poker is that I may or may not win during any given session. So since I can't be assured of winning when I sit down and play, there isn't as much motivation. If I were to be payed an hourly wage that is equal to what I am making playing poker, I would surely put in a lot more hours.

[Reef]

bonus whoring helps tremendously. Gotta put in X hands to clear the bonus. So make yourself clear at least 1 bonus / day.

[wall_st]

[ QUOTE ]
bonus whoring helps tremendously. Gotta put in X hands to clear the bonus. So make yourself clear at least 1 bonus / day.

[/ QUOTE ]

I find somtimes though this contributes to the must grind mentality and I will end up playing many more hands than I should in a single session. I often find myself thinking, Ok just 300 more raked hands till I hit that bonus.

[Michael Davis]

This works for me but maybe not for you.

I had a friend rig all of my computer porn stash to not work unless PokerTracker registered enough hands for me on a given day.

-Michael

[malorum]

Treat this as a business:

When you do some hours fill in a timesheet.
Review it at the end of the week and pay yourself your chosen hourly wage.

[poker-penguin]

[ QUOTE ]
Treat this as a business:

When you do some hours fill in a timesheet.
Review it at the end of the week and pay yourself your chosen hourly wage.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow - this is possibly the best first post ever.

Seriously. I love it and will probably start doing that next week.

[LondonBroil]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
100% @ 15 hrs < 75% @ 30 hrs

even NL

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah but 100% @ 30 hrs < 100% @ 15 hrs.

[/ QUOTE ]


?? /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[Subfallen]

[ QUOTE ]
Treat this as a business:

When you do some hours fill in a timesheet.
Review it at the end of the week and pay yourself your chosen hourly wage.

[/ QUOTE ]

So the timesheet works as a talisman against negative variance? Ah-hah, got ya.

[kurosh]

For me, pot.

[Justin A]

[ QUOTE ]
This works for me but maybe not for you.

I had a friend rig all of my computer porn stash to not work unless PokerTracker registered enough hands for me on a given day.

-Michael

[/ QUOTE ]

Haha that's awesome. I should get it so that I can't open 2+2 unless I play enough hands.

[Dan Mezick]

Temperament has alot to do with winning. You have to choose good spots to play for your specific personality etc. To choose correctly you need the data. There is really no reason to NOT try hard to do this.

I know that one simple and ritualistic habit that pays very well, is making sure that every time I sit down to play I capture this info in an Excel spreadsheet:

Date
Day of week
Poker Room name
Start/stop time
start/stop money (results)
stakes and game
1-sentence note freeform text

I keep a Excel XLS for a single year and make a tab for each month of that year and keep separate sections in that monthly sheet for tourney NLTH and Limit Holdem and other games I play.

If you skip around, the benefits of doing this religiously become apparent when you have as little as 2 weeks of data.

If you have settled on a particular mode like tourney NLTH, clear patterns still jump out with as little as 1 month of data.

You see combinations of pokerroom/game/stakes/day of week that are working for you. "Why" is less important than "how" and you will see the "how" in the data and results.

You may clearly see results drop off after X hours per day, etc. It's actually pretty shocking how patterns jump out of the data and how simple it is to get this tool working to tune your game. You have to be ritualistic about entering data before and after play, and always examine the data.

Maybe this is just a bunch of total BS, and simply the act of recording the data each time reinforces an overall disciplined approach, and that's "why". I don't know. What I can tell you is that it works.

Everyone has different thresholds for length of session, hours per week etc. You may pick up other patterns, such as how playing a certain game at a certain room at a certain time of day seems to be more profitable than others.

I notice that results improve generally on Party if you play after 10AM as opposed to starting at 8AM. Maybe more disciplined players go to a job, leaving college students and old folks. I really don't know. This is just one of many patterns I notice in my own personal play data.

PT provides some of this but does not cover all games, all rooms etc. This is a different dimension where you manually enter the above info.

If you do not keep the data, you have little chance of picking up on your own good setups for playing profitably.

The data you compile will show you what's working well for your personality and temperament. This is different for each person and it's work to enter the info.

The dividends are pretty amazing. If you give this simple technique a try I think you will agree it is well worth the trouble.

[moomoocow]

I believe the standard rule is 3 orbits of missed blinds and you're out - Incidentally, this is true in B&M too (just very rarely, if ever, enforced if there are any chips left to save the players spot)

Cheers.