Getting Paid Off With the Nuts

[Mens Rea]

Lately, I feel like I have been underbetting to try to ensure a payoff when I could be seeing a higher return.

An example from a live B&M game. The game is very loose. SB has the table covered, is loose agressive, will chase, and has been laying for me since I doubled up off him earlier. Game is 2-5. I have @ $4000 and am on the button with K /images/graemlins/spade.gif 10 /images/graemlins/spade.gif.

Preflop--
Psycho raised $40, which he has been doing every other hand. He has gone through over $5k and will pay off anything, which is why I am calling with anything decent any time he raises. 2 callers. I call. SB calls. Pot $200.

Flop--
Q J 9 rainbow.
All check to me - I check. Probably a bad play, but I'm hoping the SB will bet the turn regardless, get a few callers, and I can then raise.

Turn--
Q J 9 (7) - 2 hearts now on board.
SB overbets for $400. All fold to me. I call, knowing he will bet again almost regardless of what falls. Pot $1000.

River--
Q J 9 (7) (2) - no flush.
SB bets out $600. I have the stone nuts and @ $2900 to raise with. I ponder for a little while, thinking about the amount of the raise. He would pay me off with a set, but probably not with two pair. I want to get paid. I raise it $1000 more. He looks at me, says "I call, but your straight is good," and tables 10-8. I'm kicking myself for not pushing.

How is this line? I often don't find myself with such a deep stack, but it was that kind of game. Is the better play here to always push against this kind of opponent? I feel like, at least once a session, I'm costing myself by not getting everything I can out of loose opponents. Thanks.

[slupo]

I'm no expert, but you got paid off an extra 1000 in that hand. He had you on a straight, but the raise was low enough that he was still getting a good price to find out (1000 more into a 3200 pot). That sounds pretty good to me.

I have a hard time believing this guy would've called with the low straight if you pushed. Especially considering what he said with just 1000 raise.

The flop is where I think you could've gotten more money. I'd bet like you're protecting against the straight. The SB would probably bite given your read of him and two cards to come. Can't usually get much more money on the river.

Don't beat yourself up, you won a lot of money with that hand.

[edge]

With such deep stacks, I think you want to play it faster and try to get more money in. Bet the flop for sure and build a pot.

[Big_Jim]

OP is right, there could have been a lot more money in this pot, depending on the play.

In this particular case, since he also had the straight, you could have got all the money in on the flop.

Why slow play on this board? Typically, in my experience, maniacs will definitely call a ton of raises with fairly mediocre holdings (QJ9) is a fairly big board, likely to have hit somebody in a multiway pot.

Considering the hand that he had, he probably would have raised you on the flop, and then you might have even been able to push, thinking you'll get a caller.

I always find it very suspicious when a guy cold calls huge bets, unless he's known to chase, and I'll always check behind if they check to me on the river, or at most, bet and fold to a raise.

[BluffTHIS!]

Your sights were set on him, and headsup I would probably have played it like you did, since he is a dog to improve any hand he might have. However you forgot about the other players in the hand to whom you also gave a free card on the flop. This is a critical mistke in a multiway pot.

[thabadguy]

Bet flop, raise turn, that way it should be easy getting all the money in.

[piki]

you could always mess with him and tell him his bottom set is no good and push all in

[phil_ivey_fan]

i disagree (based on little B&M experience myself, but a lot of reading of other's experience and knowledge).

Table talk (after you have put your opponent to a decision) is usually a sign of strength.

[piki]

[ QUOTE ]
i disagree (based on little B&M experience myself, but a lot of reading of other's experience and knowledge).

Table talk (after you have put your opponent to a decision) is usually a sign of strength.

[/ QUOTE ]
I dont disagree. But doesnt this guy peg you as a complete ass who called a huge bet with the ass end?

[montechristo]

ok so I don't play this high so you might just disregard this, but I think that maybe if you had played this hand a little faster you could have gotten all his money.

[coltrane]

overbet the flop, flat call his checkraise after a little bit of deliberating.....then when he leads into you on the turn, you stick the rest in.....you took the needless risk of giving a free card to a lot of players, having a scare card come off to kill your action, and then when no scare cards came - you still didn't double up (partly because you eliminated an entire round of betting)......aim for big pots with big hands.....