In a pickle

[EMcWilliams]

We have been playing a home game 4-5 nights a week with the same group of friends for about a year now. When we first started we hadnt much knowledge of poker, we were just some kids playing. We started out with 25 50 cent blinds and a ten dollar buy in, a structure which lasted up until recently. This structure is obviously flawed, and I had wanted to change it so we can play poker better. On some nights when we were short-handed, we would play higher buy ins, and several of the players liked it so we started playing every night at a 20 dollar buy in or 25 as opposed to 10. However, some of the players dont like the 20, they feel it is too serious. Any solutions out there?

[Richie Rich]

Let everyone buy-in for any amount they want, between $10 and $25. Once the short stacks see how much MORE fun the game can be when there's more money at stake, then they're likely to buy-in for more (i.e. $25) down the road.

[Torr]

How about reducing blinds to .10/.25 with $10 or $15 buyin? That would be equiv to .25/.50 with $20+ buyin

You could even do .05/.10 with $10 buyin for 100xBB

[EMcWilliams]

I have thought about that before, however, i really do not think i will work. The play would just emulate the 25 50 games. In order to limit a field with AA, i would still need to bet in the neighborhood of 2 dollars. Does not change much. I have also thought of making each chip worth half its value, so that one buys in for 10, and gets 20. My problem again is the better players will still realize this and it wont change a thing.

[duma]

i am in the same dilemma as you are. the older guys in my game (myself included) definately want a bigger buy in. the young guys want it to be $10. most people end up buying in atleast twice anyways. the "standard" raise in the game is 2.50. everyone knows thats the standard too, as someone will state "standard" pre-flop before raising.

this brings up another point that im trying to avoid too. a new player has come in the last week and won $50. then next time over he loses 10 and is done for the night. the next night he wins 55. i was warned earlier by one of the better players at my game that the buyin should be raised to avoid players like this. hes only going to lose $10 max on a given night. whereas he could come away winning a huge amount. this is the first time i have encountered someone like this. every single person who has played in my game and gone broke has always bought in again atleast once.

most nights the post is around 150. on good nights the pots is almost double that. i dont really have set in stone rules though. i have let people buy in for more and for less before. some guys lose $20 and they want to buy in for 5. then other guys lose 20 and want to buy in for 40. then this other time 2 guys come in, dont like the fact that max buyin is 10 , and then promptly proceed to go all in almost every hand to each other just to bring their stacks up to double the avg chip stack at the table. i knew what was going but didnt try and stop it. later on the guy lost his huge stack (had AA vs 66 and the 66 gets his set on the river) and he asks to buy in for $100 and everyone lets him. at that time the pot was well over 300.

so this is the situation im in. the guys who only want to buy in for 10 the majority of them are bad players. so im afraid that if we raise the min buyin it will scare some away, even though the bad player end up rebuying atleast once on a given night.

[EStreet20]

The only way to go is to have a max and min buy-in, I.E. the 10-25 that was previously stated.

Also, the guy who's "hitting and running" at your game is doing nothing wrong or illegal. There's nothing against any casino rule that says he can't. In fact most pro gamblers say that being able to quit "when you're down" is a key to being successful. Obviously we all want chasers in our games but you can't penalize someone for being smart.

Now raising the buy in might alleviate it a little by making it possible to lose more, but how do you know he'll play till he loses his whole buy in? He can still leave as soon as his stack is short 10 bucks. Either way, your buy in should be higher simply for the fact that your blind structure sucks. This is the same reason party poker has cut the blinds in half at all of their NL tables, because the old blinds were too high in relation to the max buy -in.

Good luck,
Matt

[beekeeper]

One Suggestion
Have a buy-in for $10, with everyone allowed 1 optional rebuy and/or add-on for $10 for the same starting chips, having a predetermined cut-off point after which no rebuys or add-ons are allowed, say after the blinds have increased 3 or 4 times, or after 2 players have been eliminated.

This way, everyone can feel like they are starting with the same chip stack, but those who like higher stakes/higher payouts can risk more, and those who prefer smaller stakes can still feel competitive; their relative success at the table will either set them out before the stakes get high, or allow them to play for higher stakes without making the same investment.

Second Suggestion
Another option is to play one $10 tournament with a blind structure set to end the tournament in about 1-1/2 hours, then play for $20. Or start with a $20 tourney and then play for $10. If those who prefer smaller stakes finish in the money, they may want to gamble a bit more in later rounds.

[KenProspero]

Duma -- here's a suggestion, but it may be cold.

I don't know the finances of the people in your game, but I'm assuming that with a $10 buy in, the money isn't significant to anyone.

In any event, 'hit and run' play is neither cheating nor bad manners. The player is playing 'seriously' trying to maximize his return, and that's what poker's about.

However, if his style of play pisses off the regulars in the game, stop playing with him. It sounds like you're playing for fun, and he's being more cut-throat than you like. Well, if it stops being fun, tell him to find another game. It's not his 'right' to play there.

By the way, in calling your game a 'fun' game, I'm not demeaning it at all. I sometimes get invited to a $20-buy in game. Dealers choice, (why anyone ever chooses stud and gives up the button advantage is beyond me, but they do) only antes, never blinds, etc. etc. etc. So, I have fun, drink a few beers with the guys play real loose and have a blast. If someone came to this game and did a hit and run they wouldn't be back again -- it's just not that kind of game.

[EMcWilliams]

Our game is both a fun, but yet serious game. Several of the players enjoy playing real poker, but do not like online and there is no B+M nearby. Another problem I have had is the the fish are starting to leave. The main group of friends is starting to fall apart cause the better players are winning and the fish dont.

[duma]

Ken, i agree totally with what you are saying. its the young kids who take this thing seriously. i know better. my usual stakes at the B&M is $200 NL. this game used to be a freindly affair starting out as just homies, but more people brought their friends and so on and its turned in to something much more now and hardly anyone drinks now while playing. its still funny when i see people getting all upset over someone sucking out on them. im like dood its only 10 bux! then again, playing poker at any price level will bring out competitiveness and i understand that and sometimes i get caught up in it too.

now, when i say younger players, im talking about 17-21 year olds. so now you can understand where im coming from. myslef and the older guys are all over 24. (dont ask me how so many young kids got into my game and im not that thrilled about it) btw, the hit and run artist is a friend of a friend of a friend. so i would have no problems telling him not to come back. but the guy is terribly bad so im thinking its better to have him around than not to.

also, i have tried adamantly to change the buyin cause i know its a terrible blind structure for that low but the players have been too stubborn/cheap to all agree to it. i think its time i lay down the law!

[WackityWhiz]

I really disagree with the statement that the guy is 'hitting and running'

He just goes into the night saying that 10 bucks is the most he's gonna lose. When he won 55, he didn't hit and run... he freakin rolled over everybody (i'm assuming). If he sits down for 10 minutes and wins a 5 dollar pot and leaves.. then ya, don't invite him back. But if the guy just wants to play with 1 buyin, I don't see how you can have an arguement against that.

[duma]

its not really hit and running when he did it the first time. the 2nd time, however, after he won a huge pot by catching his flush on the river after an all in on the turn he waited about 2 rotations and then said "its getting late i gotta go." i have no rules in my house about leaving, it was more of the other guys who were pissed. i have told peole you can leave whenever you want. i wasnt the one who was pissed off as it was the guys who lost their money to him. but i have no doubt though that the more this guy plays he will eventually lose all of it back, and maybe he realized that and tried to get away as quick as possible.

hes just getting lucky, hes not "rolling" people over. i am certainly not the one paying him off, its the bad players who are. first night, however, he had pocket deuces with a 33A 2 spade flop, the turn is a spade and someone goes all in before him with the nut flush and he immediately calls. calling station the whole way thru even with overs and flush draws out there. got lucky on the river and spikes a 2 and to get the boat for a huge pot. so i hope u can get an idea of his play by that hand. he really had no clue that his pocket 2's could be beaten, but he got rewarded at the end anyhow to re-enforce his bad play.

[Bulldog]

My NL cash home game is $40 max buyin, $0.25/$0.25 blinds.

[sweetpete98]

We've always stayed away from NL cash games at our weekly home game because the big swings involved with that type of game generate a lot of the problems: most of which have been mentioned on this thread. We always just play sng style tournaments for a set buyin and no rebuy. After about two months we got the blind structure adjusted to where the tournaments last around 3-4 hours, which is about the amount of time people like to play at our home game.

[MeridianFC]

[ QUOTE ]
myslef and the older guys are all over 24.

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, you really know how to hurt a guy.

/images/graemlins/wink.gif

[rycelover]

[ QUOTE ]
We've always stayed away from NL cash games at our weekly home game because the big swings involved with that type of game generate a lot of the problems: most of which have been mentioned on this thread. We always just play sng style tournaments for a set buyin and no rebuy. After about two months we got the blind structure adjusted to where the tournaments last around 3-4 hours, which is about the amount of time people like to play at our home game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Care to share what the blind structure is and how many chips do you start off with and other details?

[dmoney]

HOW THE HELL can people play 4-5 nights a WEEK!!!!! thats
around 250 nights a year. WHOLY [censored]. and some poeple still say its to serious? Thats wierd. how can you play so much and not take it even somewhat seriously.


Signed,

Astonished In London

[sweetpete98]

we usually have between 6 and 8 players. We start with 10,000 in chips and blinds at 50/100. This is pretty small starting blinds for a 10,000 starting stack, but we up them every 20 minutes. I don't have the exact schedule with me here at the office, but it's something like

50/100
100/200
150/300
200/400
250/500
300/600
400/800
500/1000

by that time it's usually pretty close to heads up. If we have 7 or more players to start then we pay three spots. Third gets their money back, second gets 2X the buying and first gets the rest. If we only have six players then third doesn't get paid.

Every once in a while we'll have a tourney that's inordinately long or short, but it's usually around 3.5 hours.

[EMcWilliams]

Just an update: The solution that we all came to was simply to play less for more money, so its down to 3 nights a week. However, some of the others who prefer (myself included) are playing other games and then meeting up with everyone else to hang out afterwards.

[bigfernz]

[ QUOTE ]
We have been playing a home game 4-5 nights a week with the same group of friends for about a year now. When we first started we hadnt much knowledge of poker, we were just some kids playing. We started out with 25 50 cent blinds and a ten dollar buy in, a structure which lasted up until recently. This structure is obviously flawed

[/ QUOTE ]

My home game has the same problem. If some people re-buy several times, the game can go kinda normal with the extra money on the table. We've played $.25-.25 blinds and $.025-.05. I've found the $.25-.50 swings a lot, the .$25-.25 less. $.10-.25 probably isn't a bad idea either, but the cashout might be tricky if people buy in for bills and don't want to race in order to get to a even $ figure.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
We have been playing a home game 4-5 nights a week with the same group of friends for about a year now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Don't any of you have wives or girlfriends?

[EMcWilliams]

Most do...there are many hours in a day my friend. The select few that don't (the regulars like me) played that often, and then fill in spots on a need basis.

[AliasMrJones]

[ QUOTE ]
this brings up another point that im trying to avoid too. a new player has come in the last week and won $50. then next time over he loses 10 and is done for the night. the next night he wins 55. i was warned earlier by one of the better players at my game that the buyin should be raised to avoid players like this. hes only going to lose $10 max on a given night. whereas he could come away winning a huge amount.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is an illusion. It's all one big session baby.