Triple Draw High

[henrikrh]

I know it's almost never played, but for some reason a friend at my home game wants to play triple draw high. I've never tried this before but I wanna come in with the edge. Anyone have some advice for playing this, short-handed, even heads up maybe?

thanks in advance.

[MarkGritter]

My guess is that you are going to want to have a strong draw to a flush--- you have a lot fewer outs compared to a lowball game when drawing to anything else. So 3 or 4-flushes, 4-straights, and trips are probably the only worthwhile starting hands; two pair is most likely going to end up the sucker hand. (You are a dog when drawing to a straight vs. a flush, too.)

With 3 draws, a 4-flush will come in about
9/47 + 38/47*(9/46) + 38/47*37/46*(9/45) = 48% of the time.

A 3-flush comes in 21.6% of the time, if my math is right, so it is probably worth seeing at least the first draw if the odds are good.

An OESD comes in 8/47 + 39/47*(8/46) + 39/47*38/46*(8/45) = 44%, so it is definitely worth raising to enter with one. I would be careful after someone had already raised.

Trips are a little bit harder to calculate. If you always draw two, you have C(47,5) / C(47,6) chance of improving to quads. You have somewhere around (10*6+2*3)/C(47,2) probability of hitting a full house on the first draw, something like (8*6+4*3)/C(45,2) on the second, and (6*6+6*3)/C(43,2) on the third. (The true number is a little bit lower because you might see the same card twice and there will be only one pair of that rank possible instead of 3.) This is about 6% per draw.

Chance of quads ~= 14%.
Chance of full house ~= 17%.

Given that trips are ahead of four-flushes and four-straights to start with, they are obviously playable as well, winning at least 65% of the time heads up. You must reraise to drive people out, I think--- you don't want to be up against two strong draws.

Two pair have 4 outs 3 times, or about 25% to come in. Definitely dangerous, although a flush or straight draw starts behind, so your odds against a preflop raiser who draws 1 are 62% or higher. My initial guess probably underestimated them.

Pairs might be playable since they improve to trips or two pair 46% of the time on the first draw, but are definitely in trouble when up against someone drawing two. My guess is that you pretty much will have to play pairs to stay ahead of the antes, but to not play them against a raise, and to try to steal the blinds as much as possible.

I did not work out the relative probabilities of being dealt each of these starting hands, which affects things a lot--- if you've played normal draw you should have a good feel for this.

[BluffTHIS!]

Firstly, you will have to play this shorthanded like normal TD, as in 6 handed or less, or you will have to do an awful lot of reshuffling. Regarding strategy, I would have to think on this a lot as drawing to a straight at first you might pick up a 4 flush or trips and then redraw to that instead. I suspect that you might only want to draw to high fulls or straight flushes in multiway pots. FWIW, I would probably only be willing to play this game in a pot limit format so that I could narrow the field more easily on each draw and charge weaker draws, and so that false carding with trips (only drawing 1 card each time representing a flush/straight draw) will be useful allowing you to be able to crush someone with an ace high flush who won't as easily be able to read you for a full if you fill. Also, if you are dealt a pat straight with no flush redraws, you might have to fold predraw in multiway pots including pot limit.

[timprov]

I suspect flushes are going to be sucker hands, other than maybe headsup, as they're clearly the worst hand worth having at showdown, and therefore you're not going to be putting big bets in as a favorite all too often. On the other hand, you'll be killed by the blinds if you stick to three of a kind starting hands.

Maybe you can convice him to play a very small blind structure, play supertight, and hammer on the chasers. But I don't think this is a very good game.

[Tom Bayes]

You might want to play Double Draw (rather than triple) for high. I think with three draws you are going to making flushes virtually unplayable and Triple Draw High will turn into a game of "try to fill up the boat". With just two draws, flushes are more playable (I'd want it ace-high) and sometimes even trips or high two pair holds up. I'd never draw at a straight, though.

Planet Poker used to offer Double Draw High on a single micro-limit table,although it's gone now. I played the game as a novelty a few times. In all honesty, I don't think high draw is as nearly of a good game with multiple draws as lowball.

[MarkGritter]

You're right--- the flush draw is only about break-even (or less) against a pair, and is a 65/35 dog to trips and similar to two pair. Someone at the table is virtually certain to have a pair. I didn't think through the implications of the math enough.

[henrikrh]

Thanks for the help, the stats on trips improving and 3- and 4-flush probability will be really useful. I prefer TD low aswell, but you gotta play what the person with all the money to lose wants to play /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Sen. VernonTrent]

And you can take that to the bank.