KK in the SB

[Wes ManTooth]

I have KK in the SB, folds to me, I wanted to get the BB involved in the pot so I only raised 125(t225), he called.
BB limped alot and seemed to get involved in alot of hands, early on in this STT he build up a big lead but lost it.
I thought I would place a weak raise preflop and weak bet on the flop hoping to enduce a reraise.
Instead he called the flop bet

How would you play the turn?


Big Blind is t100 (7 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Button (t215)
Hero (t1910)
BB (t710)
UTG (t1440)
MP1 (t695)
MP2 (t1825)
CO (t1205)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">5 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t225</font>, BB calls t125.

Flop: (t450) 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
<font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t125</font>, BB calls t125.

Turn: (t700) 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero....?

[Lady Dont Tekno]

In my opinion the turn helps you so I keep betting hard. You're worried about 66, TT? Just keep goin, 'sides you have him covered by alot. I think you might be posting it because you lost, but I don't see any way to get away from this hand.

keep it fresh
-LDT

[citanul]

put the guy all in, you have kings.

edit, i want to add more, i guess:

so here's the thing, i'm assuming here that the op wants to have advice about getting more value out of the hand, not whether he should plan to fold, or whatever.

my original "insight" up there, is basically well, the guy doesn't have much chips left, so there really shouldn't be that much of a reason to expect him to fold on the fairly non scary turn card, since he's in for like a third of his stack already. the fact that he put in money on the flop probably means he's going to give you the rest on the turn.

checking probably gets the money in there usually too, and gets a bluff sometimes out of a rare opponent who would bluff the turn having called the flop bet with nothing...

citanul

[Wes ManTooth]

[ QUOTE ]
In my opinion the turn helps you so I keep betting hard. You're worried about 66, TT? Just keep goin, 'sides you have him covered by alot. I think you might be posting it because you lost, but I don't see any way to get away from this hand.

keep it fresh
-LDT

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not worried about him having anything (66, TT nor 22), because he plays alot of hands, justed all his chips and in this situation i was hoping he would reraise the flop.

[11t]

Put him all in =\

[schwza]

argument to push: villain will call any 6 if you push now. if it goes check-check and a big card hits, he may fold the river. same for a hand like 33. villain also may call with A high now when he would not once he sees he missed his A.

argument to check: villain will push most hands that he would call with, and he might have called with overs and will now try a desperation steal.

i think it's more likely that you'll let him make a good fold than you'll miss a chance to catch a bluff. push.

[Wes ManTooth]

[ QUOTE ]
Put him all in =\

[/ QUOTE ]

BB has 460 left, if I push he could easily fold this hand since he is not pot committed, is this the best move?

[Wes ManTooth]

[ QUOTE ]


edit, i want to add more, i guess:

so here's the thing, i'm assuming here that the op wants to have advice about getting more value out of the hand

[/ QUOTE ]

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Put him all in =\

[/ QUOTE ]

BB has 460 left, if I push he could easily fold this hand since he is not pot committed, is this the best move?

[/ QUOTE ]

what hands could he have called the flop bet for a big chunk of his stack with and then decide that he doesn't want to play that same hand for the rest of his stack, trying to triple up?

citanul

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Put him all in =\

[/ QUOTE ]

BB has 460 left, if I push he could easily fold this hand since he is not pot committed, is this the best move?

[/ QUOTE ]

villain has 360 left. the t710 he starts with is before he posts the BB. if he had 460 i'd be more inclined to check.

[octaveshift]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Put him all in =\

[/ QUOTE ]

BB has 460 left, if I push he could easily fold this hand since he is not pot committed, is this the best move?

[/ QUOTE ]

Uhhh, do you expect a definitive answer here?

He's your opponent. What do you think the right play is?

[Wes ManTooth]

[ QUOTE ]

Uhhh, do you expect a definitive answer here?

He's your opponent. What do you think the right play is?

[/ QUOTE ]

I am not expecting a definitive answer, just wanted some opinions.

In this situation I think the right play is to check. I thought I showed signs of weakness throughout this hand that would convince him to push in an attempt to steal this pot.

[Wes ManTooth]

[ QUOTE ]
what hands could he have called the flop bet for a big chunk of his stack with and then decide that he doesn't want to play that same hand for the rest of his stack, trying to triple up?

citanul

[/ QUOTE ]

when he called the flop bet, he might have had any pair, Ax, QJ, JT, I put him on a wide range.

[swarm]

You want to portray a bluff so go ahead and push... So many villans will follow you in with a low pair becuase they WANT to put you on AK not a high pocket pair.

Easy push...

[citanul]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
what hands could he have called the flop bet for a big chunk of his stack with and then decide that he doesn't want to play that same hand for the rest of his stack, trying to triple up?

citanul

[/ QUOTE ]

when he called the flop bet, he might have had any pair, Ax, QJ, JT, I put him on a wide range.

[/ QUOTE ]

so you put him on a super wide range of hands on the flop, for some reason or the other, and also knew him well enough to know that he would bluff often on the turn? this is all very unlikely. it's not that likely that your opposition (at whatever level this is, you didn't say anything) is so sophisticated, and that you possibly have shown them that you play so poorly previously, that they're going to be taking a card off for 1/4 of their stack on the flop with the intention of taking the pot away from you with garbage if you check on the turn. the guy most likely has SOMETHING here, and he's getting like 3/1 on the turn. just tapping him should be more than adequate. if you really wanted to, you could bet like 2/3 of his stack.

citanul

[Wes ManTooth]

[ QUOTE ]
You want to portray a bluff so go ahead and push... So many villans will follow you in with a low pair becuase they WANT to put you on AK not a high pocket pair.

Easy push...

[/ QUOTE ]

If he has no ace and he paired nothing would he call on a turn push?

[citanul]

well, first off, your large range of hands is running out of hands if you're saying he has no pairs and no ace. second off, you're sort of creating for us this totally insane opponent, so how about since you're creating him as you go, whatever line it was you liked is clearly right? for example, even retarded opponents, especially retarded opponents, if they call the flop bet with QJ, call a turn push with QJ.

i'm just having trouble finding a hand that an opponent of any type will "correctly" (that is correct, but in his mind) call the flop and then fold the turn, given his stack size.

if what this is all about is "hey i induced a bluff, look at me" i'm going to wind up really pissed.

citanul

[jgunnip]

I play this a lot like you did. On the turn I'll bet 1/3-1/2 his my opponents stack in this situation. If he has a hand that he'd call an all-in with, he'll probably just push over you anyway. He'll also on some occasions try to bluff you out of the pot with a few more hands. If he doesn't have a hand that he likes that much he's not calling your push any way. If he just calls then you can still push you chips in on the river.

[Wes ManTooth]

I actually played this hand as follows,

I waited, checked, BB pushed I called, he had Q9d and was drawing dead.

Like I mentioned earlier I showed signs of weakness throughout this hand and with this I thought it may convince villain to push in an attempt to steal this pot.

I know many of you most likely will not like this play.
Thanks for all your remarks and opinions, more comments are welcomed

[lastchance]

So BB sucks at poker. To maximize EV, I definitely bet a bit more on the flop, and I push the turn.

[tomdemaine]

[ QUOTE ]

I actually played this hand as follows,

Hey I induced a bluff look at me

[/ QUOTE ]

fyp /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Wes ManTooth]

i was thinking about saying that /images/graemlins/grin.gif