When is it a set?

[amoeba]

This is a phenomenom I see at the 100NL and 200NL and occasionally the 50NL.

I'm playing the 50s to somewhat get my confidence back.

If you have TP or overpair and you get checkraised or raised significantly (3x your flop bet), it is almost never a set and almost always a draw and not a monster draw either.

Whereas if its smoothcalled on the flop, and minraised on the turn or smoothcalled onthe flop, underbet when checked to on the turn, value bet when checked to on the river, it is almost always a set.

agree or disagree?

[TheWorstPlayer]

C/r on the flop is rarely a draw, IMO.

[jkkkk]

yea no way is a CR a draw, at least from anyone with half a brain.

i frequently CR my big hands if there is some nasty draws on the board

How i raise really depends on the texture of the board, position, players in the hand, etc.

[amoeba]

I mean headsup, rainbow flop.

maybe its the type of players I've been running in to but I've been shown inside straight draw or OESD or nothing way too often when I lay down my overpair to sizable flop raise.

I think the big check raise on a fairly drawless flop really represents a badly disguised set and often thats the effect these guys are going for and they figure there is a chance you are on missed overs.

[TheWorstPlayer]

You are losing because you are overthinking. People accurately represent their hands at NL50. Nobody is making the play you are describing.

[kurto]

[ QUOTE ]
Whereas if its smoothcalled on the flop, and minraised on the turn or smoothcalled onthe flop, underbet when checked to on the turn, value bet when checked to on the river, it is almost always a set.


[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with this part. The flop call, turn minraise is a set.

Which is why I lead out with my sets.

[amoeba]

most of it occured in the 100s. I think I find the lag tables and then see monsters when those lags lag it up.

I still think most people slow play sets though.

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
most of it occured in the 100s. I think I find the lag tables and then see monsters when those lags lag it up.

I still think most people slow play sets though.

[/ QUOTE ]
sure. c/c, c/r is usually a set. lead/3-bet is usually a set. but c/r flop is also usually a set/2pr.

[amoeba]

I'm still not that convinced on the last one. if all of these are true, then deep stack NL sucks because you'll have to fold way too many TP hands.

What is your opinion on raising huge amounts preflop, say 10xBB?

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm still not that convinced on the last one. if all of these are true, then deep stack NL sucks because you'll have to fold way too many TP hands.


[/ QUOTE ]
Deep stack NL is awesome because your opponents don't fold enough TP hands.

[ QUOTE ]
What is your opinion on raising huge amounts preflop, say 10xBB?

[/ QUOTE ]
I hate it.

[amoeba]

the lead is interesting to play against.

I think I used to minraise the lead with a TP or overpair type hand and of course fold to 3 bet but lately I find that an inferior line since most people with the set will call your minraise and weak lead the turn or try to check raise the turn.

I think these days I just smooth call the flop lead and check behind if he checks the turn. if he weak leads the turn again, I smoothcall again and plan on folding to 1/2 pot + bet at river if he leads river again.

[amoeba]

it is awesome if you are hitting sets, 2 pair but alot of the times you aren't.

Also, I've grown to loathe AK as the deeper you are, the less successful the continuation bet becomes.

on 50xBB stacks, you will never see anybody check raise you or raise you with middle pair, top pair bad kicker, nothing... hoping to fold out missed overcards, at 100xBB + stacks you see it much more often and unfortunately when you hold overpair, you have no idea where their aggression is coming from. it especially sucks when you have overpair out of position as you can't control the hand at all and you're sort of forced to check call down when minraised on the flop.

[TheWorstPlayer]

Min-raise on the flop in position is often top pair, FWIW. It's supposed to fold overcards and slow down an overpair. I like to 3-bet it and fold to a re-re-raise. Very rarely does someone flat call a 3-bet with a better hand than an overpair at SSNL, in my experience.

[amoeba]

you mean a worse hand right?

[TheWorstPlayer]

[ QUOTE ]
you mean a worse hand right?

[/ QUOTE ]
No. Read it again. I meant that if I'm beat after someone min-raises me on the flop and I 3-bet, they will push approximately 100% of the time. If they smooth call the 3-bet, then that confirms that they have top pair and I am going to the felt if possible. I am definitely leading the turn. I would go so far as to say that I have NEVER seen someone call a raise in position, min raise my continuation bet, call my 3-bet, and then raise the turn. Pretty much 100% of the time after I 3-bet and they call, they just call off the rest of their stack with TP.

[amoeba]

hmm interesting. I should add this flop 3 bet in to my repetoire. I've rarely done this and by rarely I mean never.