another early TPNK hand

[schwza]

33. no reads.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG (t1000)
UTG+1 (t1955)
MP1 (t440)
MP2 (t845)
CO (t1495)
Hero (t770)
SB (t740)
BB (t755)

Preflop: Hero is Button with T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, UTG+1 calls t15, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls t15, Hero calls t15, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (t75) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, CO checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t60</font>, SB folds, BB calls t60, UTG+1 folds, <font color="#CC3333">CO raises to t120</font>, Hero folds,

folding preflop seems too tight. do you agree?

[Lady Dont Tekno]

I don't have any math to back it up but I wouldn't be surprised if over 90% of your EV comes from late game when the blinds are 50/100+. SNGs become push-fests later on so the few chips you'd win from this hand are essentially meaningless. Why risk it? Usually I'd fold this.

However you got da button, so depending on my mood I might play this from time to time. And then I'd play it the same on the flop, maybe a slightly larger bet. Good fold.

keep it reaL
-LDT

[Karak567]

I fold preflop.

[curtains]

I think the hand was fine, I like folding to the checkraise also. I think calling preflop is fine but so is folding.

[RobGW]

The PF call is fine imo. But I think CO just semi bluffed you off the best hand.

[wuwei]

As you're seeing, the standard mindset around here is to play extremely tight preflop in the first 2 levels, especially in an 800 chip game. I go back and forth on my own play, trying to find the right mix. Currently, i'm in a loosen up phase at the 55 level with 200 more chips.

I think this hand is fine. I'll play QT here sometimes and fold sometimes depending upon my mood. This is on the borderline for me, but I like playing hands on the button. The suited ace hand, I fold preflop in MP.

Yah, you've gotta fold to the flop c/r.

[Unarmed]

[ QUOTE ]
The PF call is fine imo. But I think CO just semi bluffed you off the best hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

It doesn't matter, he has to fold. That's why semi-bluffs work. /images/graemlins/grin.gif That's also why you could argue for a check here. OP's hand really isn't strong enough to be protecting against free cards.

[tigerite]

You should actually play tighter preflop in the $55's, not looser. Irieguy explained this long ago, here's a quote from one of his posts, which I agree with:

When players move up to the levels where they get 1000 starting chips, they accidentally play better. They aren't used to having that many chips, so it takes them longer to get desperate. They play tighter for longer... which is correct. At the lower limits, a player can lose a hand and be down to 595 chips early. They get desperate/nervous and decide to just call all-in with Q-9s in level 1. At the higher limits, the same player can lose a hand early and still have 800 chips... which he's used to starting with. So he doesn't get desperate and therefore plays better. This is why the $55's are harder to beat than the $33's... more so than because of any increase in skill level.

[Lady Dont Tekno]

n/c

keep it funKy
-LDT

[curtains]

Thats most insane thing Ive ever heard!!!!

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]

At the lower limits, a player can lose a hand and be down to 595 chips early. They get desperate/nervous and decide to just call all-in with Q-9s in level 1.

[/ QUOTE ]

This has very, very little to do with the brand of loosening up that other people are endorsing.

[Sabrazack]

Yeah, fold preflop. It aint too tight.

[tigerite]

That's not the exact post. I can't find it in the search either. But he has definitely posted it in the past.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
That's not the exact post. I can't find it in the search either. But he has definitely posted it in the past.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
here's a quote from one of his posts

[/ QUOTE ]

duuuuuuuuubious

[curtains]

Okay but please realize that is one man's opinion, that does not make it fact. I play much looser early on in 1k chip games than 800 chip games, and I think it's pretty obvious that this makes sense. Be careful you aren't misquoting someone here, because that would be my guess /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]

Okay but please realize that is one man's opinion, that does not make it fact.

[/ QUOTE ]

You appear to have missed the memo. Argument from authority is sound logical practice here. Just ask Giga.

[curtains]

Well in this case I'd like to believe he simply misquoted Irieguy. I highly doubt Irie suggested tighter early play in the 1k chip games as compared to the 800 chip games.

[gumpzilla]

The only possibility I can imagine is that there are some hands like KQ (gasp!) that are much more playable in a wide range of situations against opponents who are coming in with all manner of hands (i.e., $11s) than in situations where you are not as likely to get action with TPGK except from hands that beat you (presumably the 1000 chip games).

[wuwei]

Here is the original thread. (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Number=1376958&amp;page=&amp;view=&amp;sb=5&amp; o=&amp;fpart=1&amp;vc=1)

[Lady Dont Tekno]

Well this thread just got interesting...

funKy
-LDT

[tigerite]

Thanks, I knew it was there somewhere.

This (http://archiveserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Number=1401121&amp;page=7&amp;view=colla psed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=14&amp;fpart=1&amp;vc=1) is a similar discussion.

The reason I couldn't find the damned thing is I wasn't looking in titles for "+limp +less". Duh me.

[tigerite]

I didn't agree with it at first either, if you look at the original thread (now posted, thanks wuwei). But time has led me to believe it is right, just from personal experience.

[curtains]

It wont let me reply to that post but I sure have some things to say! I sure as hell think that 33 is a obvious +EV call for 15 chips in the $55 and $109 games. They are stupid, and throw all their money at you when you hit a set.

[curtains]

Jesus lord almighty, now they want to fold JTs for 20 chips after 3 limpers in a 1500 chip game, and act as though this is obviously the proper way to play?

Sorry I have big grudge against Irie ever since he posted some crap about how little understanding of poker I had and how I would maybe someday be a winning poker player if I just listened to him and mcpherzen or something. Also I have been awake 24 hours straight so have too little restraint from posting this. I'll remember that sagely advice to fold JTs for 1/75th of my stack on the button against 3 limpers. This knowledge, which was stated in aforementioned thread in an authoritative and know it all fashion, should shoot my ROI up about 2 points, just enough to finally get me out of the red.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]

It wont let me reply to that post but I sure have some things to say! I sure as hell think that 33 is a obvious +EV call for 15 chips in the $55 and $109 games. They are stupid, and throw all their money at you when you hit a set.

[/ QUOTE ]

thank you for confirming i'm not crazy. folding 55 on the button with several limpers would be horrible.

i currently limp 22 utg.

[zambonidrivr]

fold this preflop. fold/push to the reraise. calling is very bad

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
fold this preflop. fold/push to the reraise. calling is very bad

[/ QUOTE ]

push = ewwwwwww..... no worse hand will call (except maybe a /images/graemlins/spade.gifx /images/graemlins/spade.gif). KQ and QJ are the only better hands that might fold. calling and getting it in on a non- /images/graemlins/spade.gif turn is much better than pushing. but folding is best.

[RobGW]

Look, everyone can argue about the PF call all they want. It is neither a good call nor a bad one. It is what it is. Depending on the skill level you can play more or less hands especially in LP. You should not be calling if you are new or you can't let go of TP. You can call if you want to if you can get away from this. A PF call of $15 chips in LP is not going to make a big difference. As Ed Miller would say "Take the Training Wheels Off".

[RobGW]

Yeah, I agree. I would relunctantly fold.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The PF call is fine imo. But I think CO just semi bluffed you off the best hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

It doesn't matter, he has to fold. That's why semi-bluffs work. /images/graemlins/grin.gif That's also why you could argue for a check here. OP's hand really isn't strong enough to be protecting against free cards.

[/ QUOTE ]

i guess, but it seems like you're going to get in an ugly spot if the turn blanks and someone bets. what do you do, call the turn and fold the river? call both? both lines are pretty unappealing. a K/A on the turn also sucks.

i like to bet and hope to get called by a weak hand like 66 or A3 and probably check behind a blank turn.