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View Full Version : ATs facing a short limp and min-raise


schwza
06-07-2005, 01:19 PM
30+3. don't remember any reads. first hand of 100/200 so utg had not had the opportunity to limp or raise with 5x stack before this hand.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG (t950)
MP (t1635)
Button (t1255)
Hero (t3810)
BB (t350)

Preflop: Hero is SB with T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls t200, <font color="#CC3333">MP raises to t400</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, hero?

Voltron87
06-07-2005, 01:24 PM
I fold, I don't think it is too close.

treeofwisdom7
06-07-2005, 01:25 PM
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yes, i know it would be helpful to know if utg had limped short-stacked before

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i think your right. as a general rule if im borderline on a call i fold. next time follow your own advice.

kyro
06-07-2005, 01:25 PM
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I fold, I don't think it is too close.

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That makes two things we agree on. The other being that Mussina sucks.

schwza
06-07-2005, 01:30 PM
[ QUOTE ]
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yes, i know it would be helpful to know if utg had limped short-stacked before

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i think your right. as a general rule if im borderline on a call i fold. next time follow your own advice.

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sorry, i went back and checked (and edited the original): it was the first hand of 100/200 so utg was not previously so short.

Voltron87
06-07-2005, 01:35 PM
I dont think mussina sucks, hes just not the ace he once was.

hes better than ATs in this situation though... ATs has very little value here.

curtains
06-07-2005, 01:37 PM
Let's put it this way, I think it's an obvious call if you are in the BB. So maybe you should fold from the SB too, but I don't think it's so clear as everyone is making it out to be (although I would lean towards folding).

Voltron87
06-07-2005, 01:39 PM
UTG limped, and MP minraised that. 1, MP's stack is significantly large, 2, you don't have much FE over him, and 3, are you really interested in 3 way action here?

treeofwisdom7
06-07-2005, 01:39 PM
if you push it seems that it will be heads up. UTG seems to have a weaker hand range than you. guessing that you folded which prolly was the best thing and UTG folded. but maybe you raised all in and doubled up raiser. cant see raiser doing that without a hand range that has you beat. so fold. but i play the tens.

GL

curtains
06-07-2005, 01:42 PM
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UTG limped, and MP minraised that. 1, MP's stack is significantly large, 2, you don't have much FE over him, and 3, are you really interested in 3 way action here?

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You don't need folding equity to just call (I have no interest in raising). Sometimes min raise means a big hand like AA-JJ, which basically means that an ace on the flop is often very strong, and of course other good flops can come. Even if there is an accident you still have a ton of chips /images/graemlins/smile.gif Anyway I would fold, I just don't think it's super obvious.

schwza
06-07-2005, 01:47 PM
i folded. utg has A5 and mp has AJ. thanks all.

treeofwisdom7
06-07-2005, 01:49 PM
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i folded. utg has A5 and mp has AJ. thanks all.

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i prolly would have doubled up MP if i caught a 10.. if an ace floped not sure what i would do

Voltron87
06-07-2005, 01:51 PM
ah I was thinking of this pushing terms. I would certainly call 200 more in the bb, I just wasn't think of playing on the flop. i dont like calling the 300 from the sb, you can hit a ten or an ace and still be way behind.

curtains
06-07-2005, 01:52 PM
Well ok my point is when you say youd call for 200 but fold for 300, it has to be at least somewhat close, even if it does change the decision from a call to a fold.

schwza
06-07-2005, 01:53 PM
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i folded. utg has A5 and mp has AJ. thanks all.

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i prolly would have doubled up MP if i caught a 10.. if an ace floped not sure what i would do

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this is one reason that calling is unappealing. you'll have a 1400 main pot and a 150 side (assuming BB is not a total idiot and he calls), and it will be hard to play correctly regardless of what flops.

curtains
06-07-2005, 01:54 PM
One rule about a player being allin...it often makes everyone involved in the hand bluff less, which is a good thing for the ATh here. Im just playing devils advocate anyway, since Id fold this preflop.

Voltron87
06-07-2005, 01:55 PM
yeah when I said it isnt close that was in perspective to pushing.

youre right, if having 100 chips more in the pot changes your decision it is close.

schwza
06-07-2005, 02:01 PM
[ QUOTE ]
One rule about a player being allin...it often makes everyone involved in the hand bluff less, which is a good thing for the ATh here. Im just playing devils advocate anyway, since Id fold this preflop.

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could you explain why that's good for AT? is it because you are more likely to be able to just check it down if you don't connect with the flop?

if not for the side pot issue, i'd be comfortable checking an A-high flop and calling/pushing against a bet (but not against a bet and a call/raise). but with the dry side pot, that line loses some value since i'm less likely to pick off a bluff/semi-bluff.

playing a Txx flop is also more difficult with a dry side pot. i don't want to check and give free cards (and people will be less likely to bluff), but my bet will be read as actual strength so i won't get action from worse hands.

curtains
06-07-2005, 02:03 PM
Well a lot of things happen, people check down inexplicably....giving you a bunch of free cards....flop could come KT3 and you could find out whether you are good without having to go crazy. I love having a player allin when I want to make a marginal preflop call, because I often get to see more than 3 cards.