Video Poker

[LuvDemNutz]

Can anybody suggest as to what the best form of Video Poker is to play?

3-handed, 5 handed, 10 handed? Is there a difference?

I seem to always get my ass handed to me when I play but supposedly the house only has a 0.5% advantage.

I play according to the advanced strategy at the "Wizard of Odds" sight.

Thanks.

[fluff]

The house only has ~0.5% advantage if you play max coins, and the game itself is a full pay machine.

A full pay machine will have payouts of 1 2 3 4 6 9 25 50 800 (JoB -> RF) for one coin. Typically however, if you only play one coin, RF will only pay 250, instead of 800, so this is why one should play max coin.

Number of hands does not affect EV, however, smaller coin size means less variance. Also be careful, some sneaky casinos have a full pay schedule for their 1 or 3 handed games, but then a crippled schedule for their 10 handed game.

[Hellmouth]

The percentage is actually much higher if you dont take into account the chance of and payout if you hit the jackpot for max coins. So if you play less to lower your variance the %Ev is more like -5% which is actually pretty high.

I always seem to win on my Caesars Los Vegas Video game for Play station. /images/graemlins/wink.gif Other than that I stick to the card room.

Greg

[LuvDemNutz]

Thanks for the response -

So 10 handed with $1 per hand is less variance than 5 handed with $2 per hand?

Is the payout for RF really that much of an issue? They are so rare (I've never gotten one).

What about bankroll considerations? -

I guess in the long run since the house has an advantage you are going to lose anyway but any idea what would be a sufficient bankroll to clear a casino bonus for example.
(Specifically, I'm talking about the Interpoker $90 monthly bonus - I'm not sure what the clearing requirements are though - 10X the bonus?).

I played 5 handed - $1 Jacks or Better - max bet and I lost $300 in less than a half hour. Obviously $300 isn't even close to being enough to withstand the variance at $25 per deal.

[pipster]

Why not play the 100+% payout machines at the casinos in various places? Or are you talking about Online casinos?

[LuvDemNutz]

This guy claims his strategy yields a 99.54% return -

http://wizardofodds.com/jacksorbetter

Am I missing something?

[ddollevoet]

Maybe he means a return of 99.54% of 100% (which would account for the 1/2% house advantage)?

[LuvDemNutz]

Yes - it's 0.46% not 5%.

[fluff]

Not playing full pay (ie, RF only pays out 250 instead of 800), increases the HA to over 1.6%.

For the other questions, wizardofodds.com has an excellent tool:

http://wizardofodds.com/videopoker/analyzer/CindyProg.html

for analyzing single line VP. For multi line calculations, there are some instructions here:

http://wizardofodds.com/videopoker/vidpokapx3.html

Specifically for the $90 bonus, which carries a $2250 (20x) WR, for single line JoB, at $5/hand, your RoR is about 83%.

[playersare]

standard 9/6 JoB returns almost exactly 99.54%. however, many online casinos will not use the full pay schedule so look very carefully before beginning play.

because of the rarity of the royal flush and the skewed payouts of higher vs. lower hands, variance will probably be higher than blackjack even though the overall house edge is similar.

[LuvDemNutz]

[ QUOTE ]


Specifically for the $90 bonus, which carries a $2250 (20x) WR, for single line JoB, at $5/hand, your RoR is about 83%.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why doesnt that surprise me? /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[Siegmund]

[ QUOTE ]


Is the payout for RF really that much of an issue? They are so rare (I've never gotten one).

What about bankroll considerations? -


[/ QUOTE ]

If memory serves, the RF payoff happens a bit less than once in 40,000 hands and represents about 2% of your rate of return.

Bankroll considerations? Oh boy. The variance in video poker is HUGE compared to any sane game like poker, blackjack, craps, whatever.

When online casinos were the hot new thing and I was a poor just-out-of-college math geek, I had this idea that I'd get rich writing a bot to play full-pay deuces wild for me. The reason I didn't do it was calculating I needed a bankroll in the tens of thousands of dollars to have an acceptable risk of ruin.

For deuces wild, a $1 wager has an EV of +0.77 cents and SD of $5.13. Playing a game every ten seconds live, your hourly rate is -- whoopee -- $2.77 and your SD/hr is -- ouch -- $97. Even after a million perfectly played hands you have a 6 or 7% chance of having less than you started with.

Playing jacks or better with the usual payout schedule you do of course expect to lose slowly instead of gain slowly, but the variance remains ridiculously high.

[Blackjack]

[ QUOTE ]
Why not play the 100+% payout machines at the casinos in various places? Or are you talking about Online casinos?

[/ QUOTE ]

Perfect strategy CAN get over 100% payouts on certain machines. The payout all depends upon the pay tables. I know foxwoods has a few Deuces wild machines with a 100.27% payout with PERFECT play.

Blackjack

[playersare]

[ QUOTE ]
I know foxwoods has a few Deuces wild machines with a 100.27% payout with PERFECT play.

[/ QUOTE ]
extremely doubtful that there is positive VP at foxwoods. there are certainly deuces machines available but check the paytables and I guarantee they won't be full pay. according to vpFREE the "best" games are 9/5 jokers (99.9%) and 8/5 double joker (99.6%). if FPDW or even NSUD were ever to surface in CT, the locals would shred them 24/7 with the 1.11% wampum rate, and double points months 3-4 times a year.

mohegan has full pay pick em and jacks available, but the banks of machines tend to vanish and then reappear suddenly at will.

[LuvDemNutz]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]


Is the payout for RF really that much of an issue? They are so rare (I've never gotten one).

What about bankroll considerations? -


[/ QUOTE ]

If memory serves, the RF payoff happens a bit less than once in 40,000 hands and represents about 2% of your rate of return.

Bankroll considerations? Oh boy. The variance in video poker is HUGE compared to any sane game like poker, blackjack, craps, whatever.

When online casinos were the hot new thing and I was a poor just-out-of-college math geek, I had this idea that I'd get rich writing a bot to play full-pay deuces wild for me. The reason I didn't do it was calculating I needed a bankroll in the tens of thousands of dollars to have an acceptable risk of ruin.

For deuces wild, a $1 wager has an EV of +0.77 cents and SD of $5.13. Playing a game every ten seconds live, your hourly rate is -- whoopee -- $2.77 and your SD/hr is -- ouch -- $97. Even after a million perfectly played hands you have a 6 or 7% chance of having less than you started with.

Playing jacks or better with the usual payout schedule you do of course expect to lose slowly instead of gain slowly, but the variance remains ridiculously high.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks Siegmund - awesome post.

I think my online Video Poker days are behind me.