Who wins this hand?

[NutCrackerr]

Friendly home tournament. Two of us in the hand. I have pocket kings. We get all-in on the turn, I have my opponent covered. Hole cards are still face down. River is dealt, I flip over my overpair. Opponent says, "Just a pair of jacks, I missed my flush."

Important to note that he hasn't touched his cards. I start to drag the pot when this nosey ^%$#$ in the seat next to him says "I'm dying to know what you had" and reaches over and flips up his cards.

Sure enough, he caught 2 pair on the river. Now the pot is already in front of me and most of the muck has already been cleaned up. Everyone knew that he had no intention of showing his hand.

How would you handle this?

[Lottery Larry]

The hand plays, it hadn't been mucked.

While any player can ask to see the cards at the end of a hand (on a called bet), this is usually only done if collusion/cheating is suspected.

I would penalize the guy who touched someone else's cards and exposed them- he had no reason to do so.

[NutCrackerr]

[ QUOTE ]
The hand plays, it hadn't been mucked.



[/ QUOTE ]

That was my argument as well. It was kind of funny. I was arguing that he should win the pot, my opponent was arguing that I should win because his intention was to muck without showing. Neither one of us thought we deserved the pot.

[EStreet20]

Hhhhmmmm....
From Roberts rules of poker

4. All losing hands will be killed by the dealer before a pot is awarded.

5. Any player who has been dealt in may request to see any hand that has been called, even if the opponent's hand or the winning hand has been mucked. If a player other than the pot winner asks to see a hand that has been folded, that hand is dead. If the winning player asks to see a losing player’s hand, both hands are live, and the best hand wins.

Tough situation here because the winning player didn't ask to see the hand but the dealer also didn't kill the hand. However in my game I'd have to say that your opponent's statement would probably be ruled an intention to fold. Either way, the player who turned over his hand would have to be penalized somehow, I.E. forfeiting some chips to the pot and use it to set a precedent that anyone doing such things will no longer be welcome at the game.

Good luck,
Matt

[NutCrackerr]

As stated before, it was a friendly home tournament, and we wanted to keep it that way. After we broke the fingers of the nosey player, we decided to chop the pot. We also instituted the new rule that in heads-up all-in situations, both players will turn over their cards before the remaining community cards are turned over, just like on TV!

[tubalkain]

[ QUOTE ]
Hhhhmmmm....
From Roberts rules of poker

4. All losing hands will be killed by the dealer before a pot is awarded.

5. Any player who has been dealt in may request to see any hand that has been called, even if the opponent's hand or the winning hand has been mucked. If a player other than the pot winner asks to see a hand that has been folded, that hand is dead. If the winning player asks to see a losing player’s hand, both hands are live, and the best hand wins.

Tough situation here because the winning player didn't ask to see the hand but the dealer also didn't kill the hand. However in my game I'd have to say that your opponent's statement would probably be ruled an intention to fold. Either way, the player who turned over his hand would have to be penalized somehow, I.E. forfeiting some chips to the pot and use it to set a precedent that anyone doing such things will no longer be welcome at the game.

Good luck,
Matt

[/ QUOTE ]

Forfeit some chips? Around here, that would be a DQ, followed by a beating. And that's in some of our casual home games. I don't want to know what would happen in a bar 2/4 game.

[EStreet20]

Haha good call,
I feel the same way but I was trying to be as diplomatic as possible since the OP had described it as a friendly home game. I play in an almost weekly home tourney for low stakes with my friends which is a welcome break from the grind of "real" poker and I go, get hammered and joke around. However, I still end up being the final ruler on just about every rules question so I have to come up with some creative type penalties sometimes when I'm loaded and it's an old tight knit group of friends so DQ's were never really an option. However this retard that flipped someone else's hand definitely would've had me ready to do some strangling. Glad no one's that much of a prick that we play with.

[Lottery Larry]

Remind me never to visit! :P

[Lottery Larry]

The only reason I went with "hand plays" is that the player didn't ask the idiot to turn over the cards and if he had accidently flipped his own cards, even with a general intention to fold them, the hand I think would still play.

Right?

[EStreet20]

Yeah the cards speak if you flip them over, even by mistake. The only reason I said his statement would have to be interpreted as an intention to fold is because the pot was awarded and the dealer had cleaned up the much without him saying a word. I think that (other of course than the jerk who flipped the cards) the dealer is mostly at fault here for not taking his folded cards before awarding the pot.

[tomb1]

[ QUOTE ]
We also instituted the new rule that in heads-up all-in situations, both players will turn over their cards before the remaining community cards are turned over, just like on TV!

[/ QUOTE ]

Not just for TV . . . that's a good rule any time.

[KenProspero]

I think it's great that both of you were being sports here.

My two cents -- if given a choice, always err in favor of having the better hand win. In this case, since the cards were turned over before they were mucked -- your friend wins.

I agree with others that something should be done to the person who turned the cards over. Even if you allow another player to request to see his cards (which you should), you never touch someone else's cards).