Tournament hand

[ansky451]

This is the first time I have played a limit omaha hi lo tournament. I have won a number of NL and limit hold'em tournaments, and final tabled in a few PL Omahas, but never 8OB. The extent of my knowledge on this subject is an essay on www.winningonlinepoker.com. (http://www.winningonlinepoker.com.)

PokerStars (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif. SB posts a blind of 10.
Hero calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, CO calls, Button calls, SB (poster) completes, BB checks.

Flop: 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(7 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, CO folds, Button calls, SB calls.

Turn: 8/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, Hero calls, MP1 folds, Button calls, SB calls.

River: 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="#CC3333">BB bets</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises</font>, Button folds, SB calls, BB calls.

Final Pot:

Tell me where I went wrong/right.

[Matt Walker]

I'd know I'd raise preflop, your hand demands a shorthanded field. I'm no limit expert but I'll give the rest of the hand a shot. Flop I'd probally call expecting I'm up against 34 somewhere in the field of 7! and plan to reevaluate on the turn if I don't fill up or hit my inside draw to the wheel. On this turn, I most likely fold due to the risk of a raise from the two players left to act. You are getting 6 to 1 now but you're realisitically only going to win half the pot so your essentially getting 3 to 1 which is boarerline. It's a tourney so try to conserve your chips for later. River is fine.

[Buzz]

Ansky - You played perfectly.

If you knew you would make your aces full on the river, you might have played it differenly, but you didn't know.

BB bet the hand from as though having flopped a wheel. It's not entirely obvious on the 2nd betting round, although you should be suspicious. However, if there was any doubt, the lead-off bet on the 3rd betting round confirms BB with the flopped wheel (emphasized by the lead off bet on the 4th betting round). Maybe BB is blowing smoke - but there's a very good chance (about even) one of the seven player who saw the flop has a three-four, and BB is betting as though representing the wheel. (The others are either chasing or also have wheels and are reading BB for the wheel and slow playing to keep everybody in who is on a draw.

You're on a draw yourself.

Taking it from the 3rd betting round, assuming nobody raises - and the turn card does not look as though it helped anyone, and assuming BB leads again on the 4th betting round, if you call here and make your draw, you should be able to collect a double bet on the 4th betting round. This expectation gives you implied pot odds for half the pot of about 5 to 1. Meanwhile you need the board to pair to make your draw. 34 to 10 against.

5 to 1 implied pot odds (for your half of the pot) and only 3.4 to 1 odds against you. You have a good call.

But raising on the 3rd betting round would be rash, because even if nobody folded to your raise you're only getting
1.5 to 1 fresh money odds for your half of the pot - and if anybody folds here, you're only getting 1 to 1 fresh money odds for your raise. And the hand odds are still 3.4 to 1 against you. (You need the fresh money odds to be better than the hand odds against you to initiate fresh money into the pot here).

Similarly, you also have favorable implied pot odds to call the single bet on the 2nd betting round, even though you should strongly suspect BB has flopped a wheel. And similarly, you don't have fresh money odds to initiate more money into the pot. More importantly, you should realize you're purely on a draw with your set of aces after this flop. Only very rarely, when you're purely on a draw, do you have favorable odds to raise.

Nice job. Might go against the grain to play the hand this passively - but you don't have anything here until the board pairs on the river - and the odds are against it pairing on the river. Some idiots might think you're chasing, but you're not. Instead your taking your favorable odds to draw. Other idiots might think you should be gunning it here, but you're almost surely up against a flopped wheel - and if that is the case, by raising you'll only knock out chasers you want to keep.

There are also some tournament considerations. From the information given, it's hard to address them, but at some stages in the tournament, you might raise before the flop with your hand. At other stages of the tournament, and depending on your stack size and your assessment of your opponents, you might fold your hand from UTG (although you do have a very strong starting hand).

Just my opinion.

Buzz

[Tailgunner]

Definitely raise pre-flop. Probably doesn't warrant a huge initial bet unless you've got a really loose table, but you've got a solid hand UTG... don't give the limpers a free ride.

Counterfeited on the flop, but you still have top set and a nut low draw. Wheel can easily break apart, and you don't want to give a weak flush draw an opportunity... reinforce your pre-flop raise with a raise here.

Great turn card... high hand draws haven't filled up and you've caught a low hand. I'd be concerned about the BB raises indicating a wheel, but you still have a lot of outs and you don't want to scare off the weak high/low chasers... a call here is good, but I'd also consider a raise depending on your read.

Beautiful river.. at worst (barring quads) you'll split with the wheel and any flush or smaller boat will probably give you action. I like the raise.