Finishing sixth 27% (PStars $5.50) [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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wulfheir

06-07-2005, 12:36 AM

So far this month (80 $5.50 SnGs on PStars), my 6th place finishes are 27.5%. Despite this my ITM is 41% with 9% ROI (at least it's in the positive).

1st Place: 12.5
2nd Place: 13.8
3rd Place: 15
4th Place: 11.3

I have 3 theories:
1) I'm getting too aggressive with the bets and blind stealing once it gets down to 6-handed, or
2) I'm not getting paid well enough for the 1 or 2 hands I enter before this point in the SnG.
3) Sample size is too small.

It may be a combination of all 3.

Sorry for posting more than 1 HH in this post, but I think it's necessary. These are my final hands in my last 3 sixth-place finishes. Upon review, it feels like I'm playing on the bubble (especially my poor post-flop play), rather than proper range of hands for level 3.

I'd appreciate any input.

##########

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

SB (t3525)
BB (t3340)
UTG (t1495)
Hero (t1170)
CO (t2570)
Button (t1400)

Preflop: Hero is MP with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, K/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
1 fold, Hero raises to t300, 1 fold, Button calls t300, 2 folds.

Flop: (t675) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets t870 (All-In), Button calls t870.

Final Pot: t2415

##########

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP (t640)
CO (t3575)
Button (t2005)
Hero (t2015)
BB (t3190)
UTG (t2075)

Preflop: Hero is SB with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
4 folds, Hero raises to t800, BB calls t600.

Flop: (t1600) K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets t1215 (All-In), BB calls t1215.

Final Pot: t4030

##########

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

BB (t2983)
UTG (t1557)
MP (t1125)
CO (t3585)
Hero (t1815)
SB (t2435)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
3 folds, Hero raises to t1200, SB raises to t2200, 1 fold, Hero calls t615 (All-In).

Final Pot: t4215

flopquints

06-07-2005, 01:11 AM

I just dont play weak aces in stars 5+.50,especially at this stage of tourney. 3 handed i might raise, or 4 handed, but not 6 handed

astarck

06-07-2005, 08:02 AM

Come back after you've played 10x as many sngs. You can't tell anything from 80 sngs.

treeofwisdom7

06-07-2005, 08:15 AM

first of all i can tell you things about your play. you raise too much preflop which almost always commits you on the flop

hand 1) raise less and sometimes you can fold these but prolly not here

hand 2) dont raise A3 UTG with that many people on the table.. lower the agression here a tad

wulfheir

06-07-2005, 08:47 AM

The only reason I got involved with Ax is my 10xBB stack. I probably still have chips to wait a round or 2 for a premium hand.

igotBlackJak

06-07-2005, 05:19 PM

edit:

Fold preflop on all 3 hands...

-no more problems

DasLeben

06-07-2005, 05:24 PM

[ QUOTE ]
edit:

Fold preflop on all 3 hands...

-no more problems

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree.

I'm on the fence about the first hand, but then again, I'm a little rusty about deepstack poker. I still don't mind the raise on a passive table though.

I push hands 2 and 3 preflop. *shrugs*

the_joker

06-07-2005, 05:32 PM

1st hand: Why the 6x bb raise? 3-4 seems more reasonable. Otherwise it seems ok to me.

Hands 2-3 you are under 10bb in chips, so I it should probably be either push or fold pre-flop. I would fold both.

11t

06-07-2005, 05:48 PM

Hand #1

Ridiculous overbet preflop, what are you expecting to do by risking 300 to win 75, seriously man. God, you aren't even in position man.

Hand #2

Push preflop or fold.

Hand #3

Again push or fold, but I fold this, a4os isn't a very strong hand. If I had 1200-1500 I would push though.

11t

06-07-2005, 05:57 PM

Im assuming this is some sort of joke

11t

06-07-2005, 06:01 PM

Pushing a3s isn't too bad if it is heads up, of course if you get called by a better ace it sucks but oh well.

DasLeben

06-07-2005, 06:02 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Pushing a3s isn't too bad if it is heads up, of course if you get called by a better ace it sucks but oh well.

[/ QUOTE ]

Still, this is a clear push as far as ICM goes. And no, it's not even close. /images/graemlins/tongue.gif

lastchance

06-07-2005, 09:12 PM

Agreed. Pushing hands 2 and 3 preflop are near-automatic to me.

I don't know about hand 1, I'm having some real problems there. KQs is not a great hand, and you have a stack, plus you're not in position. I think I fold here, but in CO, I need to be raising to t150.

Oluwafemi

06-07-2005, 10:53 PM

#1. you gotta quit raising with weak Aces 6-handed. you put yourself in a bad spot when an Ace hits the board, because you're dominated by the bigger kickers. i see low limit SNGers play themselves all the time by doing what you've done and then have the nerve to curse their bad luck. it ain't bad luck; it's bad playing.
#2. learn the art of raising. if the blinds are 100-200 and you got 2015 in chips, nothing says you have to raise to 4XsBB to 800- that's too big of a loss in your stack if you have to fold to a reraise or if you miss your flop. depending on on the texture of the table and how the flow of the game has gone through you, try raising to 500 (notice 500 is less than 3XsBB 600) or 515 leaving yourself 1500 instead of 1200. that's 300 extra chips that you can use to attack with later. when you raise too high and too much in proportion to your stack size, you put yourself in tough spots such a pot committed or chip defecient. the extra 300 in chips is there is you have to withstand 300 in blinds when it hits you.
#3. understand where you're at in the hand, too. if you're coming in raising with weak Aces (problem #1) and raising too high (problem #2), learn how to ditch you hand on the flop when you don't hit. if the flop comes Kh 9c 7s and you're holding A /images/graemlins/diamond.gif3 /images/graemlins/diamond.gif, you only have Ace suited low and no draws. at this level, anybody that called your preflop raise with King-x is 90+% in until the river on this hand. trying to stay in on this hand thinking you can muscle somebody into a fold by betting all-in is damn near suicide and problem #3. pay attention to what other players are raising and cold calling with. you gotta be able to resist playing those low Aces and Kings, even when suited. from my experience, Ace suited low is only good in unraised pots where you get a chance to limp in late position. other than that, ditch it.

pokerlaw

06-08-2005, 12:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
learn the art of raising. if the blinds are 100-200 and you got 2015 in chips, nothing says you have to raise to 4XsBB to 800- that's too big of a loss in your stack

[/ QUOTE ]

that is the biggest leak I see common in all of these. Why are you raising so large PF? the only hands you are attracting are the ones better than yours...you DO NOT have the stack to be raising this large.

I have a few hundred $5.50s under my belt and find that in most games, against most players, 3-4X BB is all you need on the PF raise. In the posted hands, you DO NOT have to be raising this much. Why get married to KQ or A3? There is PLENTY of time left.

As a sidenote - someone said that you can't tell anything from 80 SNG's and to come back later. This is awful advice. While you will not be able to your ROI and ITM numbers with accuracy and yada yada yada; it is very possible to analyze, identify, and -EV leaks in a someone's game after just a handful of games that contain common errors like this one IMO. my $.02

Oluwafemi

06-08-2005, 07:17 AM

exactly, you don't need to have a huge sample of SNGs played in order to realize that raising preflop with KQs to 300 with the blinds at 25-50 and A4o to 1200 with the blinds at 100-200 is a leak.

mackthefork

06-08-2005, 08:09 AM

Hi there

Hand one - Its okay to go broke on this one

Hand 2 and 3 are both preflop folds, the reason for this is the players at this level will call your raises with any ace a lot of the time as they mostly have no idea what they are doing, also they will not nessecarily attack your blinds indiscriminately like higher players would. Add to that you have a comfortable stack in both examples and you have clear folds, wait for better spots against these guys they will mostly just hang themselves.

Mack