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Dr_Jeckyl_00

06-06-2005, 11:50 PM

Thankyou everyone for all of your advice Original Bouble Trouble Post (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=2567545&page=0&view=c ollapsed&sb=5&o=14) . It helped get me out of a jam when I was getting short and also build my stack. But I may have done it too much. I think I always did it from SB if folded to me, and I could tell they were getting angry at me, especially the BB... and he finally called when I had nothing good... did I go to far? (see below)

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t715)
Button (t2555)
SB (t1865)
BB (t1520)
UTG (t1345)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
1 fold, Hero raises to t715 (All-In), 3 folds.

Final Pot: t1015

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t300 (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t1165)
BB (t2555)
UTG (t1765)
MP (t1020)
Button (t1495)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif.
3 folds, Hero raises to t1165 (All-In), 1 fold.

Final Pot: t1465

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t300 (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t1465)
SB (t2255)
BB (t1765)
UTG (t1020)
MP (t1495)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
2 folds, Hero raises to t1465 (All-In), 2 folds.

Final Pot: t1915

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t300 (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t1915)
MP (t2105)
Button (t1315)
SB (t1170)
BB (t1495)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
Hero raises to t1915 (All-In), 4 folds.

Final Pot: t2365

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t300 (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t2515)
BB (t2105)
UTG (t1315)
MP (t1020)
Button (t1045)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif.
3 folds, Hero raises to t2515 (All-In), 1 fold.

Final Pot: t2815

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t300 (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t2815)
SB (t1805)
BB (t1315)
UTG (t1020)
MP (t1045)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
1 fold, MP calls t300, Hero raises to t2815 (All-In), 1 fold, BB calls t1015 (All-In), MP calls t745 (All-In).

Flop: (t5325) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players, 3 all-in)

Turn: (t5325) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players, 3 all-in)

River: (t5325) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players, 3 all-in)

Final Pot: t5325

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t300 (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t2040)
Button (t1655)
SB (t1020)
BB (t3285)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif. SB posts a blind of t300.
1 fold, Hero raises to t2040 (All-In), 2 folds.

Final Pot: t2340

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t1940)
BB (t2255)
UTG (t720)
Button (t3085)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
2 folds, Hero raises to t1940 (All-In), BB calls t1540.

Flop: (t3880) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: (t3880) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: (t3880) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: t3880

... game over for me... Villain (BB) had A7o and paired his 7's (w/ A kicker)

citanul

06-06-2005, 11:56 PM

yes, you went too far. being able to gauge the temper of your opponents, and tighten up when they're going to start calling you so that you don't wind up running it out with say, 23o, goes hand in hand with being hyper aggressive on the bubble.

citanul

tjh

06-06-2005, 11:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
But I may have done it too much. I think I always did it from SB if folded to me, and I could tell they were getting angry at me, especially the BB... and he finally called when I had nothing good... did I go to far? (see below)

[/ QUOTE ]

Blind stealing and pushing cannot be used so often that you become predictable. I back off when the table is getting really angry or when it becomes obvious that my push does not represent a good hand.

Take notes when a player yields. I just put a little pair of initials.
"YB" for yields blinds.
"DB" for defends blinds.

Also notes for the rare opponent that resteals. Note that just because they defend once does not mean that they always defend, they may have gotten a hand.

Also note what other players are stealing. Blind stealers tend to be harder to steal from.

--
tjh

EasilyFound

06-07-2005, 12:00 AM

Everyone agrees, I gather, that pushing the last hand is correct? The blinds are about to eat up the small stack, unless he doubles up. I'm usually too weak-kneed to push in that spot, but that is probably why my ROI is so low. /images/graemlins/grin.gif

elcheapo

06-07-2005, 12:01 AM

I like most of these pushes though you have to show some restraint after 4 in a row. You don't want to turn A9 into 72. The BB's call on the last one was horrible with the shortstack there but people will hurt you and themselves when they make those calls because you make him feel like his A7 is the nuts.

spentrent

06-07-2005, 12:01 AM

Villain (BB) had A7o and paired his 7's (w/ A kicker)

So Villain waited for a legitimate-ish hand. I think that speaks for your strategy's success.

EDIT: I'm assuming this is a $11 or $22 where I EXPECT a bubble call with A7o.

lorinda

06-07-2005, 12:05 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Everyone agrees, I gather, that pushing the last hand is correct? The blinds are about to eat up the small stack, unless he doubles up. I'm usually too weak-kneed to push in that spot, but that is probably why my ROI is so low

[/ QUOTE ]

I fold for the reasons you describe.

Edit: This is not to detract from the play of the original poster. It's all a million times better than it was 12 hours ago and now he just has to learn when he no longer needs to win pots or when it is simply too dangerous.

Lori

brimstone1

06-07-2005, 12:08 AM

Should've stopped at 55 when you were chip leader.

I haven't read the original bubble threa (lol btw), but, I'm guessing you were told to go in with basically any two when you were shortstacked -- you were the chip leader in this case, you could've easily stopped and waited for them to kill each other.

If I'm reading correctly, you let UTG with 740 chips ITM.

I'm sure this has been a good lesson /images/graemlins/smile.gif

chisness

06-07-2005, 12:09 AM

8Ko: yes
23s: yes
9Ks: yes
9As: i fold, but it's close
55: yes
2Ao: i fold
KTo: yes
78o: yes -- fairly risky but gives you a nice position and he should not be calling with A7o (this is truly awful)

flyingmoose

06-07-2005, 12:19 AM

The only push I don't like is the A2o. You've pushed too many times already and the limper knows it's coming. There's no way he's folding.

jgunnip

06-07-2005, 02:40 AM

A2o would be a fold. Generally its a good steal hand BUT, as lorinda says, now that you've got the skill you must hone it into a weapon in that you have to learn to recognize what variables add up to a favorable steal. Things such as stealing a ton of hands in a row, as well as a limper, are generally variables that make you want to tighten up you steal range a bit.

Also, you had a pretty good run of cards in this example so don't expect to be able to push 75% of the time. Good luck!

treeofwisdom7

06-07-2005, 02:57 AM

23s is the worst hand heads up. but if its a push UTG then wow im missing something..

A2 i cant see pushing.

and 78 why push and have a small chance of going broke to a coin flip when you can make the small stack have to take a coin flip first..

jgunnip

06-07-2005, 03:21 AM

[ QUOTE ]
23s is the worst hand heads up. but if its a push UTG then wow im missing something..

[/ QUOTE ]

Hero was button, not UTG

curtains

06-07-2005, 05:21 AM

Much much better than previous tournament.....I would have folded the A2o, and the 87o would depend on my mood (probably with the table dynamic I would have folded, as you had pushed quite a bit..)

Dr_Jeckyl_00

06-07-2005, 10:47 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Villain (BB) had A7o and paired his 7's (w/ A kicker)

So Villain waited for a legitimate-ish hand. I think that speaks for your strategy's success.

EDIT: I'm assuming this is a $11 or $22 where I EXPECT a bubble call with A7o.

[/ QUOTE ]

yes, this was at $11 SNG

Dr_Jeckyl_00

06-07-2005, 10:51 AM

[ QUOTE ]
...I haven't read the original bubble threa (lol btw), but, I'm guessing you were told to go in with basically any two when you were shortstacked --
If I'm reading correctly, you let UTG with 740 chips ITM.

I'm sure this has been a good lesson /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Pretty good read for not reading original post. Yes, short stack was ITM (and probably reinforced his... "tight play" which I now know to be wrong!) Yes, this was a great lesson.

Dr_Jeckyl_00

06-07-2005, 10:56 AM

By the way, this was my second game since you all tought me correct bubble play, I came in second during my first game! I can't wait to fine tune this tonight! Thanks again

RobGW

06-07-2005, 11:52 AM

What a difference a day makes. Most of these look good. As others have pointed out I would fold the A2. The point of pushing these hands is to get your opponents to fold so you can grow your stack when nobody has anything. When someone limps in after you've been pushing it usually means take a break on this hand. lol. Some other things to consider: The stack size of your opponents. When they get desperate they'll have to call. so if you see the BB with 3-4x BB and you push into them with 72 you'll probably get called. Also look out for people limping or trying to trap you somehow. Also check the chat box. If you see someone getting mad they are more likely to call you. All this comes in handy when you get a real hand. And don't mindlessy push into the big stack. And yes, sometimes you will run into a monster, get called by a worse hand and get sucked out on. etc. Its not going to go perfectly all the time but in the long run it will help you if you can master this.