$55s - Interesting AQ Hand

[Unarmed]

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t30 (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

MP3 (t750)
Hero (t1020)
Button (t1020)
SB (t1040)
BB (t1210)
UTG (t895)
UTG+1 (t2180)
MP1 (t1285)
MP2 (t600)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
UTG calls t30, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t100</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, BB calls t70, UTG calls t70.

Flop: (t315) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 4/images/graemlins/club.gif, 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets t175</font>, BB folds, UTG calls t175.

Turn: (t665) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
UTG checks, Hero checks.

River: (t665) T/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font> UTG checks, Hero bets 200, Villain shoves, Hero calls.

[chisness]

I'd rather push the turn than check the turn.

[mosdef]

hasn't he played this exactly like a pair of pocket 9s? what makes you think that's not what he has? is it just that because that's the only conceivable hand that beats you, you call?

[chisness]

What are you saying?

[mosdef]

the preflop limp-call smells like a smallish pocket pair.

he would be losing to AJ or A10, but i don't know if they would limp-call. then again, maybe they would

AK would open raise, i would guess

KQ wouldn't (or at least shouldn't) limp-call.

the check-call flop, and check turn, check-raise river looks like a slow played monster.

what am i missing?

[Unarmed]

[ QUOTE ]
hasn't he played this exactly like a pair of pocket 9s? what makes you think that's not what he has?

[/ QUOTE ]

He *could* have 99, but why would 99 go for a C/R on the river after I checked behind on the turn?

Another thing to think about is, what am I representing on each street?

[mosdef]

my initial guess of 99 was before the edit to the river action...

so i guess you're saying your preflop raise, 175 flop bet is meant to look like KK, QQ, or JJ testing the waters on an A board? the reasoning (that you want your opponent to use) is that if you had an ace, you wouldn't bet in this case because there's no draws to punish?

then the turn check says "since you called my flop bet you must have an ace so i give up".

am i on the right track? you are guessing that your opponent has reasoned that you have a pair lower than aces and is trying to bluff you out?

[Unarmed]

Flop - Yes. Well, mostly I don't want to build a massive pot with a vulnerable hand, but if someone mistakes that for weakness and calls for that reason I'm ok with that too.

Turn - I'm really not comfortable with being called on that bone dry flop, and I'd like some flexibility on the river, so I check behind. Pushing the turn is pretty retarded IMO as I'm only getting called by 99/A4/A9.

River - He checks, so he has sh*t. The 200 bet on the river is a value bet, but he comes over the top. I'm getting whatever-1 so its a pretty easy call at that point, especially since his river check is inconsistent with a monster. This is even more true because it looks like I'm trying to get to a showdown as cheaply as possible after checking behind on the turn. If he was really trying to C/R there its a pretty dumb move as I'm checking behind the vast majority of the time given the way I played the hand.

[sapster]

I don't think betting this river is a good play.

[Unarmed]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think betting this river is a good play.

[/ QUOTE ]

Nothing personal, but if you're going to post an alternate line at least give your reasoning, a la Blackstar's post.

[sapster]

My bad, the river makes you beat just about zero real hands, how do you think this is a value bet?

[NYCNative]

The more I look at it, the more I think villain has AJ.

I check down the river because the board is too scary. Too many reasonable hands beat you here.

[Unarmed]

[ QUOTE ]
The more I look at it, the more I think villain has AJ.

I check down the river because the board is too scary. Too many reasonable hands beat you here.

[/ QUOTE ]

AJ is very likely holding right up until he checked the river. Ask yourself, if you had AJ here why would you be in such a hurry to get to a cheap showdown?

[Unarmed]

[ QUOTE ]
My bad, the river makes you beat just about zero real hands, how do you think this is a value bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the exact reason I posted the hand, and why I found it somewhat interesting. I bet the river because I put my opponent on an ace, and once he checked the river I knew that he hadn't paired up his kicker.

[NYCNative]

Maybe because he knew you'd bet on the river from a read. Maybe he was scared of the straight but pushed in the face of a smallish bet. All I'm saying is that of the thinsg you can reasonably put villain on, you're behind a lot of them. In such a situation, I'll check it down if I can.

[Big Limpin']

Bet turn so that you can check the river (assuming you dont improve)

[Dr_Jeckyl_00]

I think he has AT (maybe suited). He checked/called on every street (b/c he flopped an A, but was not comfortable w/ kicker so he is in check call mode)then CR on river... b/c he liked the 10. I think a set is out out the question b/c he should have bet the turn in fear of the flush draw

[Unarmed]

[ QUOTE ]
Bet turn so that you can check the river (assuming you dont improve)

[/ QUOTE ]

I have position here BL.

[tjh]

The play of this hand by your opponent is strange enough to suspect that he is playing "you" more than your cards. I suspect he checked th turn expecting you to bet. Same pattern for the river. I suspect he has at least A-good kicker.

What read might he have on you ? Had you been buying every orphan and otherwise pushing folks around ? Nothing wrong with that of course. Still a little strange but his bet seems to reflect strength.

I would check that river. I would bet the turn. I would make a crying call of his push and figure I am 50/50 or less likely to win it.

[wuwei]

[ QUOTE ]
This is the exact reason I posted the hand, and why I found it somewhat interesting. I bet the river because I put my opponent on an ace, and once he checked the river I knew that he hadn't paired up his kicker.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting hand. I agree, once he checks the river a value bet is in order. Checking two pair on that river after you checked the turn would be foolish, no reason to believe you're going to bet again. And after you all the weakness you've shown, calling is necessary after he pushes.

What's your plan if he bets 3-400 on the river?

[wuwei]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Bet turn so that you can check the river (assuming you dont improve)

[/ QUOTE ]

I have position here BL.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, that's one of the benefits of having position - a free showdown is nice at times. However, I find that line better on a board with some draws. This one is pretty draw free.

[Unarmed]

[ QUOTE ]
What's your plan if he bets 3-400 on the river?

[/ QUOTE ]

Call. What if he pushes? Call. I've shown enough weakness with the half pot flop bet and check behind on the turn that I'm calling anything he throws at me with these stack depths. Which is, of course, another benefit of checking the turn...

[Apathy]

I'm not being biased just because you got check raised on the river, this river really is a check behind situation, the only hands you beat that call are small aces, and AJ and A-10 got there on the turn/river and you were already behind to A9 (remember this is an early position limper).

The turn check is very good, assuming you are planning on calling almost any river bet, there are no draws on the flop at all, so I would fear 44, or a weak ace when I am called on the flop. That means on the turn you are either drawing dead, or the villian has 3 outs, so control the pot and check behind.

The river is a bad card for you, but the villian would likely bet most made hands here unless they are especially tricky, but there just isn't much that pays off 200 (a good bet size btw). So check behind there.

Now I'll read the other comments in the thread

[Apathy]

Oh btw, I definetly call after being check-raised on the river, it is just such a weird thing for the villian to do that you have to think theres a good chance he has a hand like 8-8 or something and is bluffing.

[Unarmed]

Thanks Apathy.

I will agree that the river bet is definitely not standard, and a quick glance at this hand would have me mumbling, scary board, check behind. But who is it scary for really? Villain checked the river after I half potted the flop and checked behind on the turn. He's clearly not plotting to C/R me here. So given:

- my opponent's most likely fault is being a huge calling station
- I've shown massive weakness

I bet this river and fully expect to get called by any PP and a weak ace which hasn't pair its kicker. Or, maybe I get C/R'd by some retard with any two cards.

[adanthar]

I think betting the turn is close but I probably do it anyway - another 1/2 pot or so to make sure I get a free river and/or can fold to a checkraise.

Having checked, the river is a clear value bet. When you get CR'd...I don't know, there's absolutely nothing you beat if he's not a donkey but an any two CR if he is. I probably call and write down some 'boggle' type [censored] in my spreadsheet when I get shown KQ, or possibly A2. *shrug*

edit: the only reason I really bet the turn is because the 50's are fishy enough that you *still* can't narrow down his hand to a range that beats AQ even after the flop call/turn jack. Like I said, though, it's close.