I think I tilt a lot more easily in 6max [Archive]

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baronzeus

06-06-2005, 07:47 PM

I was looking over my last few thousand hands and my losing hands. I noticed that my biggest losses were as a result of me tilting and trying to "outplay" my villain. Here are a few examples:

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with T/images/graemlins/spade.gif, J/images/graemlins/club.gif.
1 fold, MP calls, 1 fold, Button calls, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (4 SB) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/spade.gif (4 players)
SB bets, Hero calls, MP folds, Button folds.

Turn: (3 BB) 3/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
SB bets, Hero raises, SB calls.

River: (7 BB) K/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, SB calls.

Final Pot: 9 BB

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP with J/images/graemlins/spade.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif.
1 fold, Hero raises, 2 folds, BB calls.

Flop: (4.40 SB) 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB calls.

Turn: (4.20 BB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
BB bets, Hero raises, BB calls.

River: (8.20 BB) A/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets, BB calls.

Final Pot: 10.20 BB

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 6 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is BB with K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, MP calls, 2 folds, SB completes, Hero raises, UTG calls, MP calls, SB calls.

Flop: (8 SB) 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG folds, MP raises, SB folds, Hero calls.

Turn: (6 BB) 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, MP raises, Hero 3-bets, MP calls.

River: (12 BB) 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets, MP calls.

Final Pot: 14 BB

Anyhow, you can see how retarded I am, and these are just a few of the examples.

What should I do in these situations? I hate quitting after a bad run but I also hate losing more money. .

The reason I haven't quit when I was down recently is because I keep using reasoning that the cards "will come" if I stick around.

Another question, do you tighten up? My vpip is around 26/13 usually, but I've loosened up during runs (bad ones) which is probably the opposite of what I should do.

I think I'd be a very winning player (4BB+) if it wasn't for this single leak.

gvibes

06-06-2005, 08:10 PM

Real ugly.

Hand 1: fold flop
Hand 2: fold flop
Hand 3: I don't raise KTo from the BB, but I'm not good. Everything after the flop bet and call are spewerrific.

Not be an ass, but I'd be shocked if you were a winning player.

emonrad87

06-06-2005, 09:41 PM

I have this problem to some extent too, but these hands are just plain idiotic. What exactly are you trying to do here? I'd put you on my buddy list if I faced you.

Hand 1 - fold flop.
Hand 2 - fold preflop, especially if that's what youre gonna do post flop.
Hand 3 - Check preflop, dont lead flop.

7ontheline

06-06-2005, 09:43 PM

You hopefully know this, but these hands are all awful.

baronzeus

06-07-2005, 12:16 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Real ugly.

Hand 1: fold flop
Hand 2: fold flop
Hand 3: I don't raise KTo from the BB, but I'm not good. Everything after the flop bet and call are spewerrific.

Not be an ass, but I'd be shocked if you were a winning player.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thanks for the advice on how to play these guys. *sarcasm*

I KNOW I misplayed these, that's the point of these posts. I was on mega-tilt for these 3 hands after getting outdrawn some # of times before.

I was looking for advice on how people deal with tilt, not how people play these hands.

Thanks

imported_ncray

06-07-2005, 12:43 AM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

Not be an ass, but I'd be shocked if you were a winning player.

[/ QUOTE ]

[/ QUOTE ]

Poker tracker agrees. Given my data on you, it has appended you with the fish icon. But this is only over several thousand hands, so it might be a sample size issue. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

emonrad87

06-07-2005, 01:01 AM

Dude, if you KNOW you're on tilt and you KNOW you're misplaying hands this badly you'd be retarded to not quit playing. You lost ~12BB more than you should have making these illogical plays. You clearly can't deal with tilt, so stop playing when you go on tilt. Duh.

climber

06-07-2005, 02:03 AM

I'll be a little nicer than the rest of your responders so far and admit that I have made plays like this in my life. Not consistently but in the tens of thousands of hands i do have a few of these thrown in. I also have done it. I decide I "have a read" or somethign else equally stupid and decide to "put a move on" someone.

Tilt sucks and its expensive--thats the bottom line. The worst thing that can happen is if someone actually folds to your stupidtiy and you get reinforcement that what you were doing was acaceptable. I think an occassional bluff to mix up your play and disguise things can be +EV but not as you demonstrate in your examples. If you decide to try a move and it doesn't work(i.e. he 3 bets your turn check raise) you need to be a man and fold. You will thank yourself later when you note you still retain some semblance of a bankroll.

Mostly though you need to stop and walk away. davidross's recent post mentions the ability to stop at a preset time even if you are stuck as being an important skill to have. If you had that skill I expect you wouldn't feel driven to these desperation plays. The recognition that it is all one big session can be quite liberating. I'm working on that skill and realization myself.

baronzeus

06-07-2005, 03:26 AM

Thanks for the post.

Most of these were against people I classified as "maniacs" and fish and were based on "reads" i thought I had based on previous suckouts by them.

I also want to point out that these are 3 hands I found in the last several (5?) thousand--not something I do on a regular basis.

Anyways, I'm gonna try that "set an end time" and quit--regardless of where I stand.

BTW, those of you who are doubting me, I have around 100K hands between 0.5/1, 1/2, 2/4, 3/6, and 5/10 (as I've been moving up when my bankroll gets bigger and I get better), and I've averaged over 2.5BB/100 over the entire 100K in limit.

jwg152

06-07-2005, 04:08 AM

I've tilted off plenty of cash in my day - nothing to be ashamed of IMO. I don't get tilty much anymore, but when I do - I immediately stop playing before I can afflict any damage on my roll. When I play I'm constantly monitoring my mood (I think you should do the same), and whenever you feel like it is poisoning your play - just stop immediately and blow your steam away from the tables.

Jeff W

06-07-2005, 04:18 AM

Excruciating.

That money would have bought 3 nice steak dinners w/ beer.

Kimpan

06-07-2005, 05:37 AM

I hate when putting it like that.. /images/graemlins/confused.gif

Silverback

06-07-2005, 06:38 AM

[ QUOTE ]
I think I'd be a very winning player (4BB+) if it wasn't for this single leak.

[/ QUOTE ]

I dont think posters read your whole post otherwise they surely would have commented on the above quote, simply legendary.

baronzeus

06-07-2005, 07:46 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Excruciating.

That money would have bought 3 nice steak dinners w/ beer.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, I know.

Silverback: Funny, I make over 2.5BB/100 already, and looking over my hands, this is the biggest leak I've found. (although it only happens about several times a week, or 5000 hands)

djoyce003

06-07-2005, 12:13 PM

Baron....i'll be a little kinder than some of the posts but here are my thoughts, and how I attempt to handle tilt.

first off...I never try to outplay the fish and maniacs at 5/10 by making some of the moves you made here. You can attempt these on only thinking players...and TAGS...not on fish and maniacs, they will ALWAYS call you down, especially if they call the turn raise. You have a better chance of folding them out by raising the flop and betting out on the turn.

Second off, if I'm getting outdrawn and sucked out on etc...I try to tighten up a little bit until I start winning. This will keep you from playing marginal hands, or raising marginal hands in an effort to "get back to even quickly." I realize you are tilting, but when i'm not tilting I am not raising j 10 off from middle position. I might limp behind a limper, or fold, but i'm not open raising with it. If you tighten up your standards when you lose instead of weakening them, you might not reach the tilt stage. If all the above fails, when you get a couple of suckouts and you know you are playing bad, and I know you know when you are, take a walk, watch some tv....play a computer game, do something, but don't play anymore hands till you are completely over it...it's that simple. Hope that helps.

k_squared

06-07-2005, 01:15 PM

baron, you can't expect a mainac or fish to respond to the type of plays you made. I think that you can resonably take a line like you do in the beginning of the second hand against some particularly weak opponents who like to bet out from the big blind into a raiser when the board comes low. You obviously took this play way too far though.

Also, writing some numbers down doesn't justify that you are a good player. You don't need to prove that to anyone! Not to mention the fact that when you combine numbers over all those limits you are making the 'total' a number that is pretty meaningless. The games play differently. You could still be a losing 5-10 player and have an average win of 2.5 BB over all the limits...

As a matter of fact. Lets say you do win 2.5 BB per hundred hands at 5-10. Because of your occasional mistakes you have lost any profit you would have made from the next 480 hands or so (taking another posters comment about you spewing 12BBs... 12/2.5=4.8, 4.8*100=480). That is no small matter. And while that is not entirely true in so far as your typical mistakes are accounted for in your winrate... it is still a useful illustration of how big a problem tilt creates.

I have no problem with trying to steal hands from your opponents when you have a weak hand... in fact if you are going to try to steal then that is a good time to do so. But, what hands did you really think they had? Especailly after they called your raises? Jack high is not a good show down hand, even against maniacs/fish.

good luck,
-k_squared