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pittsburgh_kid
06-06-2005, 05:39 PM
Sorry about my other post (re: making money at SNGs); once I spotted the very long thread on the same topic, I felt stupid.

But, indulge me:
How many tables do you usually play?
How big a BR do you need to multi-table SNGs?
Would you recommend starting at the $5, or playing the $20?

Single-tabling the $10, I've been consistently making money, and my (very) few forays at the $20 have been good, but maybe if I multi-table I should play the $5 for a while?

I only started playing SNGs a month ago.

runner4life7
06-06-2005, 05:40 PM
As far as multitabling, its probably good to start at the 10s, I think the 5s would be a waste of time. I think about 50x the buy in is relatively standard for bankroll.

chisness
06-06-2005, 05:41 PM
Never play the $5s!!! The $1 fee is obscene.

Myst
06-06-2005, 05:41 PM
Never play the $5s, even if you are single-tabling.

You need at least 100+ buyins if you are going to seriously multitable 22s+. If you are recreational player, I can see you having a bankroll of 50-60.

The swings can be tough. Believe me.

runner4life7
06-06-2005, 05:42 PM
100 seems excessive, if you can mentally take swings, I really think 50-60 is plenty. If you are losing 50 buy ins you probably arent a winning player, and if you are not by much.

DasLeben
06-06-2005, 05:44 PM
[ QUOTE ]
100 seems excessive, if you can mentally take swings, I really think 50-60 is plenty. If you are losing 50 buy ins you probably arent a winning player, and if you are not by much.

[/ QUOTE ]

I wouldn't necessarily agree with that. Plenty of winning players on this board have had 50 buyin swings, especially at the $55s+.

runner4life7
06-06-2005, 05:45 PM
At the 55s I believe it, but at the 10s and 20s? I could of course be way off, I'm just going with my experience with only about 750-1000 games.

DasLeben
06-06-2005, 05:48 PM
[ QUOTE ]
At the 55s I believe it, but at the 10s and 20s? I could of course be way off, I'm just going with my experience with only about 750-1000 games.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, yeah, I dunno. Just saying that 50 isn't unheard of. I'm not sure what the worst is at <$33 games.

Mr_J
06-06-2005, 05:50 PM
100 buyins at the 22s is extremely excessive. Try a moving bankroll instead if you are willing to jump up and down in limits. When you have $xxxx move up to the next stake, when you drop $xxxx jump back down.

Deep bankrolls are only needed when you don't want to move back down during a downseing. E.g, when I get to the $109s I want to stay there so will have a silly sized BR.

Myst
06-06-2005, 05:56 PM
[ QUOTE ]
100 seems excessive, if you can mentally take swings, I really think 50-60 is plenty. If you are losing 50 buy ins you probably arent a winning player, and if you are not by much.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh believe me, I AM a winning player, and Ive had a 35 buyin downswing already. I also wouldnt be surprised if a BIGGER downswing happens to me in the future. Variance is a lot greater than most people here are willing to admit. A bigger bankroll is always good, if not for practical, then for psychological reasons.

Myst
06-06-2005, 05:59 PM
[ QUOTE ]
100 buyins at the 22s is extremely excessive. Try a moving bankroll instead if you are willing to jump up and down in limits. When you have $xxxx move up to the next stake, when you drop $xxxx jump back down.

Deep bankrolls are only needed when you don't want to move back down during a downseing. E.g, when I get to the $109s I want to stay there so will have a silly sized BR.

[/ QUOTE ]

Im one of those that has a 100 buyin bankroll, and will only move up when I have an 80 buyin bankroll at the 33s. When you gotta live off your roll, you have to be that conservative, b/c you CANT afford to bust. I know I can beat the 55s right now for reasonable profit, but will refuse to move up b/c variance can severely hurt me in the short term.

treeofwisdom7
06-06-2005, 06:02 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
100 seems excessive, if you can mentally take swings, I really think 50-60 is plenty. If you are losing 50 buy ins you probably arent a winning player, and if you are not by much.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh believe me, I AM a winning player, and Ive had a 35 buyin downswing already. I also wouldnt be surprised if a BIGGER downswing happens to me in the future. Variance is a lot greater than most people here are willing to admit. A bigger bankroll is always good, if not for practical, then for psychological reasons.

[/ QUOTE ]

hey myth J/W when you have a downswing like this one .. at some point going down do you play worse or do you play consistent?
and how long \did your downswing last? like how many days

Mr_J
06-06-2005, 06:10 PM
"When you gotta live off your roll, you have to be that conservative"

I agree with that. But if you can afford to move up/down in limits when necessary, you don't need a BR nearly as large.

I live off poker, but I've only just turned 22 so basically any limit provides enough income ($22s pay >$50) for me to live off comfortably. Really depends on the individual.

Myst
06-06-2005, 06:13 PM
[ QUOTE ]

hey myth J/W when you have a downswing like this one .. at some point going down do you play worse or do you play consistent?
and how long \did your downswing last? like how many days

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi, my name is Myst, not myth. Glad to meet your acquaintaince.

I multitable like a madman (albeit not Raptor status), averging about 40 touranments per day. So the 35 buyin downswing didnt last that long. It was for about a week (225 tournaments), lol, last week infact.

I AM one of the most consistent players I know of. I dont pass up any edges, and I constantly review my own Hand histories to see if I make any mistakes. The only conclusion I came come up with is Variance. If you dont believe variance cant happen to even the best, then you are sorely mistaken.

TheNoodleMan
06-06-2005, 06:14 PM
pitt kid, unless you want to get flamed worse than you did in the previuos post, you should really start reading the forum before posting such simple questions. You have asked 2 of the most common questions on this board. Look around a bit, you'll learn a few things.

Myst
06-06-2005, 06:15 PM
I'm 18, so thats true for me too. Just when you hit a downswing, it hurts a lot less at the 22s than the 109s.

Kanchi
06-06-2005, 06:15 PM
[ QUOTE ]

hey myth J/W when you have a downswing like this one .. at some point going down do you play worse or do you play consistent?
and how long \did your downswing last? like how many days

[/ QUOTE ]

Playing worse or consistent varies person to person.

It can last like a day or a year, depending how many you play in that span. But something like 400+ break even SNG's that include a 30 buy-in downswing does and eventually will happen >.<

treeofwisdom7
06-06-2005, 06:19 PM
sorry myth..
i review my HH when i get a chance.

but im not sure what you mean by not passing any edges.. will you go all in as a slight underdog but call because the pot odds justify it?

oh wait i know what you mean. because if you thought you had a bigger edge if you folded and played it out , you would fold..

alright GL.

Blarg
06-06-2005, 07:16 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
100 seems excessive, if you can mentally take swings, I really think 50-60 is plenty. If you are losing 50 buy ins you probably arent a winning player, and if you are not by much.

[/ QUOTE ]

Oh believe me, I AM a winning player, and Ive had a 35 buyin downswing already. I also wouldnt be surprised if a BIGGER downswing happens to me in the future. Variance is a lot greater than most people here are willing to admit. A bigger bankroll is always good, if not for practical, then for psychological reasons.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with every bit of this 100%.

DonCaspero
06-06-2005, 07:32 PM
How about sng's paying top 4 like steps on party, and mini-steps with 5 payouts?? That should lower the variance a bit. But is it enough to counter increased variance of better, more aggressive players?

My instincts tell me yes, since the steps have a lot of climbers playing their way in, and the skill level is not quite relative to the buy-in, as it is in the 215s.

So lower bankroll for steps than regular sng's??

Blarg
06-06-2005, 07:37 PM
I can see the logic of what you're saying, but with no experience in the steps nor all that much experience in SNG's yet either, I feel particularly unqualified to say anything at all about the steps tourneys.

runner4life7
06-06-2005, 08:23 PM
I definately agree there can be huge swings, I have taken about a 24 buy in swing at the 22s. I'm just the type that wants to play as high a level as i can, mainly because I am 20 and its not as important. But I understand where you are coming from and as always better safe than sorry.

inyaface
06-06-2005, 09:00 PM
What kind of a BR do you guys suggest for the 109s and 215s 4 tabling?

augie00
06-06-2005, 10:15 PM
[ QUOTE ]
What kind of a BR do you guys suggest for the 109s and 215s 4 tabling?

[/ QUOTE ]

Mine is 6k ATM. Every Friday I figure out how much I won, withdraw half of it, and keep the other half in my BR.

Myst
06-07-2005, 01:15 AM
[ QUOTE ]
sorry myth..
i review my HH when i get a chance.

but im not sure what you mean by not passing any edges.. will you go all in as a slight underdog but call because the pot odds justify it?

oh wait i know what you mean. because if you thought you had a bigger edge if you folded and played it out , you would fold..

alright GL.

[/ QUOTE ]

You dont have to [censored] by purposely mispronoucing my name twice. You arrogant prick. Last time I try to offer any solid advice to jackasses like you.

Sponger15SB
06-07-2005, 01:21 AM
[ QUOTE ]
So lower bankroll for steps than regular sng's??

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah you could probably get by with a tiny bankroll of like $25,000 for the step 5's

raptor517
06-07-2005, 08:56 AM
[ QUOTE ]
100 seems excessive, if you can mentally take swings, I really think 50-60 is plenty. If you are losing 50 buy ins you probably arent a winning player, and if you are not by much.

[/ QUOTE ]

i have had 3 50+ buyin drops in my sng career, and im pretty sure that im a winning player. somewhere to the tune of 100% certain im a winning player. and it is by a bit more than much.

people dont realize the true magnitude of the swings a very solid, winning player can experience, especially one that plays around 500 a week multitabling for a living. i find it fairly interesting that people can say that the worst ootm streak they have ever had over 1k tourneys was 8, or the most buyins they dropped was 20. i have 8 ootm nearly every day. i drop 15-20 buyins in swings almost every day. that is part of multitabling sngs. they are streaky. im rambling a bit, and am about to pass out, yugo and greke are curled up next to each other in the bed, which is kinda funny, so im about to jump into my bed without another man. yay.

anyways, on a side note, get used to losing if you plan to play sngs for a living, or a lot for recreation even. you have to be able to stomach losing 5-10k in a couple days just because of variance. thats part of the game. 70% of this game is half mental. (in the wise words of yogi.)

holla