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bernie
06-06-2005, 03:56 PM
This is a repost from another forum I'm on. Someone else posted the story. It turned into quite a powderkeg. Let's see your take on it...

I italicized the part that was a component of the fuse that set the thread off.

[ QUOTE ]
So here I was yesterday, having a relaxing evening. My phone rings, and it's a friend of mine calling to tell me that his sister, who has been a really good friend to me over the years, is in the hospital because her piece of [censored] boyfriend(who none of us ever liked) has just beat the hell out of her.

Ok, so this so called man is about 6'3", 240-250lbs. A big guy next to me. And she is only 5'4" maybe 120lbs soaking wet. Anyway, dude wants blood! And he asks me to help because he knows he cant take the loser himself. In the heat of the moment Im all yeah, lets go kick the [censored] out of him. The police have also been called, but they dont know where to find him. But we have a few pretty good ideas where he would be.
I should add that Im not violent person, well except for playing hockey, but that doesnt count! Hell the last time I was involved in anything like a street fight was 10 years ago. And that was over a guy hitting a woman too.

So calls are being made as people are hearing the news. After a bit we get talked out of hunting the prick down. Now this is not the first time goofball has hit her , but nothing like this before. In the past we all wanted to be supportive and try and talk her into dumping his ass. But for whatever reasons, she stayed with the dork.

A couple hours later we find out the police have arrested dipshit.

So I have just got back from visiting her in the hospital. She is a mess. She will recover physically, but who nows how long it will take for the emotional scars to heal. When she gets out in a few days we are going to help her find a new place and move. They didnt live together, but she doesn't want to be in the same place when fuckwad gets out of jail.

I really dont want to get into this with her right now, but I just dont understand why she stayed with him. I've seen the tv documentaries on this subject. So I know about the manipulation, the control, emotional abuse, and the fear. Even still I dont get why people stay in these situations. It just seems to be a recurring theme with these assholes. The same bullshit stories...Im sorry baby, it'll never happen again, blah, blah, blah....BULLSHIT! It always does, these losers dont change. If anything it just gets worse then next time. I just dont get it. It seems simple enough to me, if some bottomfeeding slimeball hits you, get out, leave. Period! And have the scumbag thrown in jail.

Any thoughts anyone might have might help. Because in all honesty, right now, I wish she had had a gun and killed the son-of-a-bitch. Or at least me or someone else had been there to do it for her.

[/ QUOTE ]


b

ThaSaltCracka
06-06-2005, 03:59 PM
I don't see what the big deal is.

asofel
06-06-2005, 04:07 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I don't see what the big deal is.

[/ QUOTE ]

The big deal is that its happened before, and I'm sure the debate turned into "its somewhat her fault too", kinda like the whole "she was wearing a sexy short skirt in a bad part of town" = partial responsibility for rape.

ThaSaltCracka
06-06-2005, 04:09 PM
I realize that it happened before, but I don't see how that little passage would result in a long flame war.

-Skeme-
06-06-2005, 04:11 PM
Tricky situation. To be honest, I don't think beating him down with another guy is the answer. If he's a mean piece of [censored] like you described him, he'll want revenge on you for jumping him with a friend. It's not going to help the lady out, and it might even make her mad, if she's still brainwashed and feels for the idiot. I think you should press charges and have him put in jail for as long as possible, sue for any damages you can, and get her therapy. Both physical and emotional. You don't need this dipshit coming after either you, your friend or her. Let it go and hope he gets jail time.

asofel
06-06-2005, 04:12 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I realize that it happened before, but I don't see how that little passage would result in a long flame war.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, didnt' mean to make it seem that you didn't.

as far as that little sentence sparking things, you know how people are when arguing a point. All it taks is for someone to say "serves that stupid bitch right" and so on, and *boom*

RacersEdge
06-06-2005, 04:16 PM
Beating a guy up won't solve the problem. The real cause is the girls refusal to dump the guy. I just can't comprehend that. It's like having rattlesnakes as pets and then getting bit one day - and being surprised.

bernie
06-06-2005, 04:19 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I realize that it happened before, but I don't see how that little passage would result in a long flame war.

[/ QUOTE ]

yeah, didnt' mean to make it seem that you didn't.

as far as that little sentence sparking things, you know how people are when arguing a point. All it taks is for someone to say "serves that stupid bitch right" and so on, and *boom*

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, the response that kind of started it was someone responded how someone who stays in this situation after the first time is mentally sick.

But a couple people did do the patented, 'she's an idiot for staying' deal. Which also sparked quite a bit, but was quickly defused.

b

Boris
06-06-2005, 04:38 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I don't think beating him down with another guy is the answer.

[/ QUOTE ]

WRONG! A serious beat down is in order so that future abuse is prevented. You need to put fear in the abuser's mind. You need to let him know that if he ever comes in contact with the woman again there will be serious consequences. A restaining order just doesn't do the trick.

06-06-2005, 04:53 PM
i swear i was playing my guitar when this [censored] went down! you honkeys come near me with some hostility and i will beat your white asses so bad you will look like reginal denney.

Jakesta
06-06-2005, 04:59 PM
I think your friend should have shot the guy and made it look like self-defense. It would be very hard for the police to prove anything, especially with the girl testifying to the fact that the boyfriend was a nutcase.

He could have said that he confronted the boyfriend, and the boyfriend attacked him.

BusterStacks
06-06-2005, 05:03 PM
Hate to be insensitive, but women who stay with guys who hit them are just as screwed up as the guy.

Jakesta
06-06-2005, 05:05 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Hate to be insensitive, but women who stay with guys who hit them are just as screwed up as the guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's very insensitive. Emotional abuse is as tough, if not tougher, to handle as physical abuse. The women are made to feel worthless by the abusive boyfriends and so it is not fair for you to call them screwed up.

06-06-2005, 05:06 PM
shut up fool

BusterStacks
06-06-2005, 05:08 PM
[ QUOTE ]

That's very insensitive. Emotional abuse is as tough, if not tougher, to handle as physical abuse. The women are made to feel worthless by the abusive boyfriends and so it is not fair for you to call them screwed up.

[/ QUOTE ]

You know why they call it SELF-esteem? Because it's about how YOU feel about YOURSELF. Nobody can make you feel worthless unless you let them, thus I stand by my position: you're screwed up.

Jakesta
06-06-2005, 05:09 PM
[ QUOTE ]
shut up fool

[/ QUOTE ]

You shut up, nug.

Ulysses
06-06-2005, 05:14 PM
[ QUOTE ]
someone responded how someone who stays in this situation after the first time is mentally sick.

[/ QUOTE ]

While some would use different terminology than "mentally sick" in this situation, that is often essentially true. Many women who find themself in this situation grew up in some sort of abusive situation and they have some screwed up ideas about love/abuse/self-worth/etc. That is where great lines like "he only hits me because he loves me" come in.

sfer
06-06-2005, 05:17 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Hate to be insensitive, but women who stay with guys who hit them are just as screwed up as the guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

That doesn't mean they don't deserve help.

cnfuzzd
06-06-2005, 05:18 PM
i only have two or so really close friends who are also chicks. However, if they got beat up by their boyfriend, that dude would be dead. Or really damn close. He would definitly never, ever want to be around them again.

peace

john nickle

BusterStacks
06-06-2005, 05:21 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hate to be insensitive, but women who stay with guys who hit them are just as screwed up as the guy.

[/ QUOTE ]

That doesn't mean they don't deserve help.

[/ QUOTE ]

that's true. I'm not saying they don't, but it's not like this is a random attack, she should be helping herself to some extent.

Jakesta
06-06-2005, 05:21 PM
It's much easier for you to say that as a guy. You've never been in this situation, and can't even relate. Not to say I can, but I think you need a little more empathy.

BusterStacks
06-06-2005, 05:22 PM
What is it that I've said that you think would be different if I was a chick?

Jakesta
06-06-2005, 05:24 PM
If you were a girl, you would be able to understand the utter dominance that a man can have over a woman: the size advantage, and men are just naturally more aggressive.

Anyway, regardless of your gender, assigning ANY blame to the woman for being beat up is wrong.

Drunk Bob
06-06-2005, 05:26 PM
Simple tell the cops where you think he may be.

Jakesta
06-06-2005, 05:28 PM
Can you give us the link to the thread in question? Z'd like to read the responses.

brassnuts
06-06-2005, 05:29 PM
[ QUOTE ]
assigning ANY blame to the woman for being beat up is wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

WRONG!

The piece of [censored] boyfriend is obviously the source of the problem, but she definitely has a responsibility to protect herself.

BusterStacks
06-06-2005, 05:29 PM
[ QUOTE ]
If you were a girl, you would be able to understand the utter dominance that a man can have over a woman: the size advantage, and men are just naturally more aggressive.

Anyway, regardless of your gender, assigning ANY blame to the woman for being beat up is wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm assigning blame for staying with a guy that beats you up. Furthermore, what does physical dominance have to do with anything? The discussion is based on the fact that this was her BOYFRIEND, which is the real problem.

Jakesta
06-06-2005, 05:35 PM
Well yes, it's his fault, but let me make this point clear: women can be quite stupid sometimes. It's a fact. Women can be dumb. That doesn't mean that you should assign blame to her though. She can't help it.

sublime
06-06-2005, 05:35 PM
jake-

you just agreed with him.

brassnuts
06-06-2005, 05:36 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Well yes, it's his fault, but let me make this point clear: women can be quite stupid sometimes. It's a fact. Women can be dumb. That doesn't mean that you should assign blame to her though. She can't help it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Clever thinking.

BusterStacks
06-06-2005, 05:37 PM
If you truly believed it was 100% his fault, why would female stupidity even be worth mentioning?

gorie
06-06-2005, 05:45 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Well yes, it's his fault, but let me make this point clear: women can be quite stupid sometimes. It's a fact. Women can be dumb. That doesn't mean that you should assign blame to her though. She can't help it.

[/ QUOTE ]
you're all dumb.

bernie
06-06-2005, 09:52 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Well yes, it's his fault, but let me make this point clear: women can be quite stupid sometimes. It's a fact. Women can be dumb. That doesn't mean that you should assign blame to her though. She can't help it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Uh, yes, she can. He's not assigning 100% blame to her saying it's all her fault. There's no argument that the guy is a major prick. But it's not an 'it's all on him or all on her deal'. She does have her role in it if it's being repeated. After how many times of her getting beat do you finally asign any blame to her? 8th time?

b

bernie
06-06-2005, 09:58 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
someone responded how someone who stays in this situation after the first time is mentally sick.

[/ QUOTE ]

While some would use different terminology than "mentally sick" in this situation, that is often essentially true. Many women who find themself in this situation grew up in some sort of abusive situation and they have some screwed up ideas about love/abuse/self-worth/etc. That is where great lines like "he only hits me because he loves me" come in.

[/ QUOTE ]

Terminology /semantics came up. True, there are 'better' terms to use. Some really got hung up on the 'sick' part.

b

bernie
06-06-2005, 10:03 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Can you give us the link to the thread in question? Z'd like to read the responses.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm new to that group. There was alot of emotional typing by some gals who took it way too close to home in that thread. I mean, they went ballistic. Because of that, I'll choose not to link the thread as they are cool chicks. Even if they are a little screwed up. This just happened to be a random topic on that forum that ignited.

Much of it was kind of like how this thread is going. I reposted it here because I thought it would be an interesting topic.

b

Arnfinn Madsen
06-06-2005, 10:07 PM
My wife and I was going to rent out a room. A girl who had escaped from her violent boyfriend (she had been to hospital, so I guess it was quite serious) comes to watch the room. She signs the contract, but never shows up. I call her several times and she does not answer.

After a few weeks I get a message that she is sorry (she does not need the room since she has moved back to her boyfriend /images/graemlins/confused.gif). The government had agreed to pay for the room so it was no economical reason.

I guess many have similar stories, it kind of freaks me out.

Arnfinn Madsen
06-06-2005, 10:11 PM
Don't see this as encouragement!

I had a beer at a café watching football when a man says: "It is nice to finally be out". I got so confused with this comment so I asked a common friend what he meant. He said he just got out of prison for murder. I asked WTF??. He said that he killed the man that raped his sister.

Thinking about it I wouldn't hesitate to do the same.

handsome
06-06-2005, 10:14 PM
1. She needs therapy (not that therapy is a bad thing).
2. Sock him in the gonads, headbutt him in the nose and armbar him until his elbow snaps and muscles tear.

Deftoner
06-06-2005, 10:14 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well yes, it's his fault, but let me make this point clear: women can be quite stupid sometimes. It's a fact. Women can be dumb. That doesn't mean that you should assign blame to her though. She can't help it.

[/ QUOTE ]
you're all dumb.

[/ QUOTE ]

adamstewart
06-06-2005, 10:24 PM
[ QUOTE ]
the manipulation, the control, emotional abuse, and the fear.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you guys read this part? READ IT AGAIN.

I'm disappointed and enraged by some of the ignorance in this thread.

None of you know [censored], unless you are actually the woman here. So stfu until you've lived a lifetime in her shoes.

There's so much more to be said on this subject, but I fear it would be a waste of my 'breath', so to speak.


Adam

poker-penguin
06-06-2005, 10:25 PM
I'm torn between the two responses here.

On the one hand, this scumbag deserves to "fall down the stairs" a few times, especially if the stairs are wearing steelcap work boots. On the other hand, beating people up, for whatever reason, is rightfully against the law, so if you get caught, you've messed your life up.

Theoretically though, if a good friend's cousin was beaten up by her scumbag boyfriend, the two of us would theoretically go round to his house and break his nose, cheekbone, several ribs, his right arm, and severely bruise his testicles. If we theoretically told him "if you go near or talk to X again, we won't stop next time" he may well stop.

However, I don't reccomend this, because if he is a stubborn scumbag, and not just a weak abusive bully, he'll call you and go near X again, and quite possibly be even more angry at her.

Theoretically, we got lucky, and he left town soon after getting out of hospital.

The best course of action is to get the guy put in prison for as long as possible.

bernie
06-06-2005, 10:54 PM
[ QUOTE ]
1. She needs therapy (not that therapy is a bad thing).


[/ QUOTE ]

Therapy is an awesome thing. It's too bad it has kind of a stigma attached to it that makes it less appealing to people.

It's also great IF used right. The trick is also to find a good therapist. Too many now just try and give a pill or refocus someones stuff on something else never really tackling the issue. And some just tell the client what they know the client will want to hear.

b

bernie
06-07-2005, 10:25 AM
[ QUOTE ]
None of you know [censored], unless you are actually the woman here. So stfu until you've lived a lifetime in her shoes.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not a situation you have to have first hand experience with to have an opinion on it. There are tons of volumes written on it. These situations (generally) are not as unique or independent as some try to say they are. This is why therapists who have no first hand experience can actually help people through these types of situations. Many people who do have first hand experience with this have trouble discussing it because their emotions cloud the issue. Which is wholly understandable.

It would be ignorant to just ignore it and not try to learn about these types of situations. Instead, just shunning them under the bed and 'hoping' it never shows up in your circle. The more insight you have into it, the better prepared you are should you encounter this situation from whatever angle your role is in it.

b

Patrick del Poker Grande
06-07-2005, 10:36 AM
So I guess what we're trying to say here is that we can see how this got to be a big flame war? Good. Let's move on.

adamstewart
06-07-2005, 11:57 AM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
None of you know [censored], unless you are actually the woman here. So stfu until you've lived a lifetime in her shoes.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is not a situation you have to have first hand experience with to have an opinion on it. There are tons of volumes written on it. These situations (generally) are not as unique or independent as some try to say they are. This is why therapists who have no first hand experience can actually help people through these types of situations. Many people who do have first hand experience with this have trouble discussing it because their emotions cloud the issue. Which is wholly understandable.

It would be ignorant to just ignore it and not try to learn about these types of situations. Instead, just shunning them under the bed and 'hoping' it never shows up in your circle. The more insight you have into it, the better prepared you are should you encounter this situation from whatever angle your role is in it.

b

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with what you've said.

My post was directed more to those who said something along the lines of "She's just as at fault," or "Why can't she just leave him?"


Adam

-Skeme-
06-07-2005, 01:26 PM
[ QUOTE ]
WRONG! A serious beat down is in order so that future abuse is prevented. You need to put fear in the abuser's mind. You need to let him know that if he ever comes in contact with the woman again there will be serious consequences. A restaining order just doesn't do the trick.

[/ QUOTE ]

I really don't think beating him down will do anyting but make him want to kill bernie, the friend, and the girl. If the girl moves away from him for good, he doesn't pose a threat unless he can find her. If she doesn't take him back, there should be no problem. I think jumping him will provoke him to hurt someone again.

Sponger15SB
06-07-2005, 01:37 PM
[ QUOTE ]
i only have two or so really close friends who are also chicks. However, if they got beat up by their boyfriend, that dude would be dead. Or really damn close. He would definitly never, ever want to be around them again.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you'd risk going to jail for your entire life over this?

Sounds like a horrible idea.

DMBFan23
06-07-2005, 01:37 PM
[ QUOTE ]
i only have two or so really close friends who are also chicks. However, if they got beat up by their boyfriend, that dude would be dead. Or really damn close. He would definitly never, ever want to be around them again.

peace

john nickle

[/ QUOTE ]

amen. I'd call two hardcore pipe hitting n****** to come to work on him with a pair of pliers and a blowtorch. I'd get medieval on his ass

Stuey
06-07-2005, 02:53 PM
[ QUOTE ]
The best course of action is to get the guy put in prison for as long as possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

Meet him the day he gets out of prison and force him to violate his parole. I have zero criminal record so if he beats the [censored] out of me or kills me with no witnesses he is sure to get more time. Only do this if you feel VERY strongly this guy deserves more punishment, as this is a big sacrifice on your part. But if he messes up a friend of mine that bad I'm doing it. Very good chance I’m at the gate when he gets out the 2nd time also.

If he didn't kill me I would enjoy this so much. Seeing him in court trying to tell them I attacked him! This is what I call the reverse Gandhi. And yes I have done it before, and it works, you just have to be prepared to take some serious licks. And don't hurt the other guy enough to leave marks.

Very often the guy does not hurt you very bad. He is confused and you end up with a busted nose and some stitches maybe. But you must be prepared for the .01% of scumbags that will kill you. But he was going to kill someone sooner or later. And if it gets that intense you will surprise yourself how hard you can fight when you think you might die. You might kill him first.

Suffering cheerfully endured, ceases to be suffering and is transmuted into an ineffable joy.

ps I sleep with my doors unlocked, people think this is crazy. Doors can’t stop the really bad sobs. So why lock up? I am not a good fighter and I am only 5'10 but when I stand up to these pricks and they all get a confused scared look in their eyes and most refuse to fight unless you hit them first. At their core they are very scared people, give them a reason to fear and the tables turn.

bernie
06-07-2005, 03:25 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
The best course of action is to get the guy put in prison for as long as possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

Meet him the day he gets out of prison and force him to violate his parole. I have zero criminal record so if he beats the [censored] out of me or kills me with no witnesses he is sure to get more time. Only do this if you feel VERY strongly this guy deserves more punishment, as this is a big sacrifice on your part. But if he messes up a friend of mine that bad I'm doing it. Very good chance I’m at the gate when he gets out the 2nd time also.

If he didn't kill me I would enjoy this so much. Seeing him in court trying to tell them I attacked him! This is what I call the reverse Gandhi. And yes I have done it before, and it works, you just have to be prepared to take some serious licks. And don't hurt the other guy enough to leave marks.

Very often the guy does not hurt you very bad. He is confused and you end up with a busted nose and some stitches maybe. But you must be prepared for the .01% of scumbags that will kill you. But he was going to kill someone sooner or later. And if it gets that intense you will surprise yourself how hard you can fight when you think you might die. You might kill him first.

Suffering cheerfully endured, ceases to be suffering and is transmuted into an ineffable joy.

ps I sleep with my doors unlocked, people think this is crazy. Doors can’t stop the really bad sobs. So why lock up? I am not a good fighter and I am only 5'10 but when I stand up to these pricks and they all get a confused scared look in their eyes and most refuse to fight unless you hit them first. At their core they are very scared people, give them a reason to fear and the tables turn.

[/ QUOTE ]

Who are you trying to impress?

Have you ever spent a significant amount of time in a hospital?

How about this, which is feasible. You end up in ICU for about 3 months. You're recovering and you find out she has since gone back to him. He decided to drop the charges against you, but has filed a restraining order.

Worth it?

b

Stuey
06-07-2005, 04:09 PM
[ QUOTE ]
Who are you trying to impress?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry

[ QUOTE ]
Have you ever spent a significant amount of time in a hospital?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope

I didn't say I was right. I don't know the right way to deal with the situation. But it makes me mad. So I prevent the guy from hurting other people. He hurts me sure but it is easier to suffer than to watch those you care for suffer imo.

Again sorry, reread my post and it does sound like chest thumping and that was not my intention. But this topic gets my blood up.

bernie
06-07-2005, 04:28 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Who are you trying to impress?

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry

[ QUOTE ]
Have you ever spent a significant amount of time in a hospital?

[/ QUOTE ]

Nope

I didn't say I was right. I don't know the right way to deal with the situation. But it makes me mad. So I prevent the guy from hurting other people. He hurts me sure but it is easier to suffer than to watch those you care for suffer imo.

Again sorry, reread my post and it does sound like chest thumping and that was not my intention. But this topic gets my blood up.

[/ QUOTE ]

It is a frustrating topic. Primarily because there's nothing anyone can really do until the person decides they really want help. Think of how you'd do in a womans shelter watching woman after woman go back to the guy. I feel like doing that to the guys who do this also, but no way.

b

Jakesta
06-07-2005, 04:33 PM
I already told you what you can do. Shoot him and make it look like self-defense.

TimM
06-07-2005, 04:35 PM
[ QUOTE ]
ps I sleep with my doors unlocked, people think this is crazy. Doors can’t stop the really bad sobs. So why lock up?

[/ QUOTE ]

Would you rather be woken up by the sound of someone breaking into your house, or when they attack you in your sleep.

Stuey
06-07-2005, 05:09 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
ps I sleep with my doors unlocked, people think this is crazy. Doors can’t stop the really bad sobs. So why lock up?

[/ QUOTE ]

Would you rather be woken up by the sound of someone breaking into your house, or when they attack you in your sleep.

[/ QUOTE ]

I gota stop posting here it is to easy for you smart people to make me look dumb. I don't lock the door and yah I guess he/she could get me in my sleep. I started doing this as it was really hot one summer night and I slept with the doors open, my screen doors don't lock.

Everyone always says they want to die in their sleep anyway. And think about it, why do we blame ourselves when others do bad things to us? It is the freak that is wanting to kill people in their sleep that is in the wrong.

I live with the belief that if something bad is going to happen to me there is not much I can do to prevent it. Hell where I live in winter it can be 40 below zero. Maybe it is ok if someone comes in.

Last year a child died as they wandered outside of their house and the door shut behind them locking them out. With some luck they might try my door.

I'm not saying you are but I wish people in general would stop getting mad at me because they think I am stupid. I did not tell you to unlock your doors. I just said I don't lock mine and I sleep well. And I'm not hot in summer. /images/graemlins/smirk.gif

ps I lock them if I have company as I am sure they would not agree with my reasoning. And I respect that and want them to feel safe even if they are not.

TimM
06-07-2005, 06:50 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I live with the belief that if something bad is going to happen to me there is not much I can do to prevent it.

[/ QUOTE ]

This can be used to justify all sorts of careless behavior. Of course there are thing you can do to reduce the chances of bad things happening to you. To suggest otherwise is ridiculous.

Stuey
06-08-2005, 02:14 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I live with the belief that if something bad is going to happen to me there is not much I can do to prevent it.

[/ QUOTE ]

This can be used to justify all sorts of careless behavior. Of course there are thing you can do to reduce the chances of bad things happening to you. To suggest otherwise is ridiculous.

[/ QUOTE ]

I just wanted to say I see why I am wrong now. /images/graemlins/crazy.gif

I happened to currently be reading Inside the Poker Mind by John Feeney, Ph.D. And I read the chapter Risk(of Death)-Reward Ratios.

I finally get it. If there is only a very small chance something could happen and your sample size is large enough it will happen. And if you can lower your risk easily, without disrupting your life, it is very stupid not to do it.

Locked myself in my house last night. I didn't like it but I can get used to it. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

Thanks for taking the time to try and pound something so simple into my thick skull everyone.

OtisTheMarsupial
06-08-2005, 06:39 PM
[ QUOTE ]
you're all dumb.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have to agree with Gorie here.

Moreover,
a) violence is not a solution to this problem

b) people in abusive relationships (I say "people" because men are abused too) who stay in those relationships actually have some compelling reasons for doing so:

1. Statistically, abusers are way MORE abusive during and just after a break-up. This is how many women die at the hands of their husbands or boyfriends - because they say they're leaving and the guy can't take it and so he kills her.

2. There is something called a cycle of abuse. Once the abuser is done hitting, he usually gets all guilty and extra lovey-dovey. He acts like the best boyfriend in the world during this stage. Obviously, this would be somewhat appealing but mostly, this would be the most difficult time for a person to leave the relationship since the abuser is being so super-kind and is sincerely sorry for his abuse.


[caveat - I would NEVER suggest that someone stay. I'm just saying that people who stay are not necessarily irrational people, that people who've been abused are the victims and are NOT responsible for the abuse.]

bernie
06-08-2005, 07:08 PM
[ QUOTE ]
I'm just saying that people who stay are not necessarily irrational people, that people who've been abused are the victims and are NOT responsible for the abuse.

[/ QUOTE ]

So if a victim goes back to the abuser for the 9th time, and it happens again, there's no accountability attributed to the victim for putting themselves back into that situation? They have absolutely no role in it?

I don't agree.

That isn't saying it isn't a screwed situation, or that the victim 'deserves' it any time it happens.

b

cnfuzzd
06-08-2005, 07:15 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
i only have two or so really close friends who are also chicks. However, if they got beat up by their boyfriend, that dude would be dead. Or really damn close. He would definitly never, ever want to be around them again.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you'd risk going to jail for your entire life over this?

Sounds like a horrible idea.

[/ QUOTE ]

I am a master of horrible ideas...

this still sounds like the option i would end up taking.

Similairly, if anyone ever raped my gf/molested my child or killed my best friend, that person would soon after find themselves in a very bad situation. Im not one of those people who uses violence to solve problems, but there are just some things which i find intolerable, and in my eyes are worthy of retribution. Usually painfull retribution.

Fwiw, i think i could beat the case, or at least get it reduced somewhat, but i would mostly be apathetic about this.

peace

john nickle

jaxUp
06-08-2005, 07:21 PM
[ QUOTE ]
This is what I call the reverse Gandhi.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you mind if I use this?

Stuey
06-08-2005, 10:25 PM
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
This is what I call the reverse Gandhi.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you mind if I use this?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm cool with that. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

OtisTheMarsupial
06-08-2005, 11:42 PM
[ QUOTE ]
So if a victim goes back to the abuser for the 9th time, and it happens again, there's no accountability attributed to the victim for putting themselves back into that situation? They have absolutely no role in it?

[/ QUOTE ]

Victims are not responsible for crimes committed against them.

I'm not saying they should stay; I'm saying that they shouldn't be blamed for violence against them.

You're looking at a big problem through a very small telescope. For example, do you know what you're supposed to do to get out of an abusive relationship? You're supposed to leave the state. Really. You are supposed to get as far away from the abuser as possible. You supposed to change your phone number, change locks, change your email, change your job, change your habits, never be alone...

Why? Because abusers don't just stop being abusive when their partners leave them. They hunt their victims down and sometimes kill them. As I said before, the period during and immediately after a break-up is the most dangerous time for a victim of abuse.

You can't just expect people to walk into more danger even if it's the only way to escape the current danger. Get it?

Leaving the relationship is an incredible burden for some people, particularly if there are children involved. They simply don't have anywhere to go...

other1
06-09-2005, 12:02 AM
[ QUOTE ]
The trick is also to find a good therapist. Too many now just try and give a pill or refocus someones stuff on something else never really tackling the issue. And some just tell the client what they know the client will want to hear.

[/ QUOTE ]
Sign me up for that! My therapist refuses to tell me what I want to hear and insists on making me say what I don't want to hear. I'm sure there is a psychobable term for it.. I call it torture I pay for. I have to see another guy to get drugs and those aren't even that good. Bah.

AnyTwoCanLose
06-09-2005, 12:04 AM
Stay out of it.

When you kick his butt (which he deserves) and she goes back to him (which happens most of the time) you'll be the one left standing with a criminal record.

You don't know the whole story. Its very tempting to be the hero... but it almost always winds up tragically for the would-be defender of the weak and helpless.

The one thing you can do is encourage her to get therapy. She clearly has issues she needs to resolve. She needs to be able to take care of herself... you won't always be there to save her.

bernie
06-09-2005, 05:01 AM
If a victim decides to get out of the situation, who is accountable for that choice?

[ QUOTE ]
You're looking at a big problem through a very small telescope. For example, do you know what you're supposed to do to get out of an abusive relationship? You're supposed to leave the state. Really. You are supposed to get as far away from the abuser as possible. You supposed to change your phone number, change locks, change your email, change your job, change your habits, never be alone...

[/ QUOTE ]

You are also looking through a small telescope if you think the victim has no accountability in repeated situations.

Yes, I knew this. I never said it was an easy process.

[ QUOTE ]
They simply don't have anywhere to go...

[/ QUOTE ]

Sure they do. There are plenty of shelters around.

b