Neteller Accnt Hacked (continued) and Neteller Won't Refund

[neteller123]

First off, as I said in the previous thread I registered this account just to post this message on Saturday when I found out all my money in the Neteller account had been stolen. So if you think I'm making this s.h.i.t up because this is a new account, please disregard this message and save all those "Look at your name, neteller123 hahaha", "Why should we believe you Mr. 1 post?" to yourself. Thank you.

That being said, here's the bad news. I lost all my money in the Neteller account and most likely they are NOT going to credit me my money back.

Here's what happened today. I called Neteller's investigation dept and talked to one of their reps. She told me I needed to file a police report because without a report there's very little they could do. So I went to the Sheriff's office and had a chat with fraud and forgery investigator Tim. I filed a report but was told that I couldn't get a copy until next week. I told him I needed to fax that report to Neteller so that they can start the investigation. He basically called BS on that one and told me Neteller should give me the money back right away even without a police report if they are a reputable company because I reported the crime to them in time.

So I left the Sheriff's office and called Neteller back. They said they were going to start the investigation right away but wouldn't release any info to the police (then to me) until they got the report.

They also told me they were going to refund me ONLY IF they could prove Neteller's computer system had been breached. In other words, unless they came out and made a public announcement that Neteller had been hacked, I would have to take responsibility for the loss.

Of course I knew Neteller is an offshore company thus out of U.S. jurisdiction. But I will see what I can do and keep you guys posted about the outcome. Call FBI maybe. Call FSA (Neteller is FSA regulated whatever that means). That sort of thing.

All in all, if one day you wake up and find out your Neteller money has been stolen, chances are you will NEVER get your money back. YOU ARE RISKING LOSING ALL THE MONEY BY USING NETELLER because there's no better alternative (please correct me if I'm wrong).

For those of you who think "This moron just lost all his money because he doesn't know squat about protecting his account info. This will never happen to ME.", I'd like yall to know I had the same thought up until Saturday. Believe it or not, I've been very careful when it comes to online banking. Firewall, anti-spyware sw, anti-virus sw, hard-to-guess password... you name it, I've done it.

[Voltron87]

have you provided any pics of the transactions of your neteller, emails, anything?

[J_B]

You have still never said where this $$$ went to. Another person, a poker site, etc.? This is all tracked and I find it amzing you can't answer this simple question.

[CountDuckula]

Sorry you've had all this trouble. One suggestion for the future (whether you use Neteller or one of the other e-wallets) is that you open a separate checking account solely to fund it, and only put money into it when you're actually depositing. That way, if someone hacks in again, nobody can withdraw more than is already in Neteller and/or your separate account (which should be zero unless the hacker catches you at exactly the wrong time). I have no clue as to how to fix your current problems, though.

-Mike

[neteller123]

[ QUOTE ]
You have still never said where this $$$ went to. Another person, a poker site, etc.? This is all tracked and I find it amzing you can't answer this simple question.

[/ QUOTE ]

What do you mean buddy? In my original post, I said "The transaction description says RM Costa Rica". A few posters then suggested that my money had been transferred to a poker site since quite a few poker sites are based out of Costa Rica.

Neteller won't release any info to me until they get the police report next week.

[Sponger15SB]

[ QUOTE ]
have you provided any pics of the transactions of your neteller, emails, anything?

[/ QUOTE ]

Seriously, until he posts these I don't give a [censored]. Sounds like a bunch of crap to me.

[neteller123]

[ QUOTE ]
have you provided any pics of the transactions of your neteller, emails, anything?

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't have any email at this point and my neteller account has been closed (I authorized them to do so for now). But I will post a copy of the police report once I get it in the mail next week.

[CountDuckula]

[ QUOTE ]
You have still never said where this $$$ went to. Another person, a poker site, etc.? This is all tracked and I find it amzing you can't answer this simple question.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a good point; if it was moved to another poker/gambling site, that means that someone has used your email address to open an account there. You should go over your transaction logs, identify which site it was moved to, and contact their support people. They should be able to figure out what happened to the money after it came from your Neteller account, and maybe that will help you and the authorities track it down.

-Mike

[CountDuckula]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
In my original post, I said "The transaction description says RM Costa Rica". A few posters then suggested that my money had been transferred to a poker site since quite a few poker sites are based out of Costa Rica.

Neteller won't release any info to me until they get the police report next week.

[/ QUOTE ]

Can they at least tell you what "RM Costa Rica" is? If it's a poker/gambling site, there should be no problem for them to reveal that to you. If it's an individual who set up a personal transfer, they ought to be able to identify who it is, even if they can't tell you that.

-Mike

[neteller123]

[ QUOTE ]
Can they at least tell you what "RM Costa Rica" is?
-Mike

[/ QUOTE ]

Unfortunately, according to the rep from their investigation dept, they can't at this point. But she said she was going to contact the merchant immediately.

[OldYoda]

I would love to be able to follow the "Jah Rasta" rule in your case (everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt) but I can't do it. Everything you say is just way too general and out of focus. 1. You claim someone hacked your Neteller account and transferred your money. Tell us how much you lost. 2. You claim it was transferred to "RM Costa Rica". Fine, shouldn't be too hard to get Neteller to tell you who this is or what kind of business. 3. You provide no copies of e-mails, etc.

I think someone said it in the original thread - let this thread die. You've had your 15 minutes.

[neteller123]

[ QUOTE ]
I would love to be able to follow the "Jah Rasta" rule in your case (everyone deserves the benefit of the doubt) but I can't do it. Everything you say is just way too general and out of focus. 1. You claim someone hacked your Neteller account and transferred your money. Tell us how much you lost. 2. You claim it was transferred to "RM Costa Rica". Fine, shouldn't be too hard to get Neteller to tell you who this is or what kind of business. 3. You provide no copies of e-mails, etc.

I think someone said it in the original thread - let this thread die. You've had your 15 minutes.

[/ QUOTE ]

1. Okay I didn't want to reveal this info originally but now I'm so pissed off because I probably won't get my money back and nobody even believes my story. I lost a little over $3,000. Not a whole lot, I know. But still I'm pissed off as hell and I hope you understand why.

2. As I said in my previous post, their rep told me they couldn't disclose any info until they get the police report.

3. As I said in my previous post, I have no email at this point. As soon as I get one I will post it here.

[MrVanDresen]

THIS Neteller guy is so full of crap!!!

Doing business over the internet is actually safer then going to a store or a bank because of technology today the electronic paper trails can help you alomst pin point where exactly money is and is going.


This is impossible to believe that Neteller would tell you tough luck, make up a better story !!
/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[neteller123]

[ QUOTE ]
THIS Neteller guy is so full of crap!!!

This is impossible to believe that Neteller would tell you tough luck, make up a better story !!
/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

Unfortunately I don't have an audio clip of the conversation between me and the Neteller rep. But essentially she did tell me tough luck. Hard to believe? No s.h.i.t.!

[Emperor]

I do beleive you, however.

Ok I don't know why you posted this thread in the first place.

1. If it was to inform the public, the public doesn't care.
2. If it was for sympathy, the morons of which comprise 90% of the posters in this forum aren't going to be sympathetic.
3. If it was to get help, I told you what to do. There was no need for a followup post, as you were just going to get flamed again.

Feel free to PM me directly if you just want someone to vent to.

Posting in the internet forum is absolutely worthless if you expect an intelligent response.

[neteller123]

[ QUOTE ]
I do beleive you, however.

Ok I don't know why you posted this thread in the first place.

1. If it was to inform the public, the public doesn't care.
2. If it was for sympathy, the morons of which comprise 90% of the posters in this forum aren't going to be sympathetic.
3. If it was to get help, I told you what to do. There was no need for a followup post, as you were just going to get flamed again.

Feel free to PM me directly if you just want someone to vent to.

Posting in the internet forum is absolutely worthless if you expect an intelligent response.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you for your kind response. Sadly I didn't realize nobody would believe my story or even care about it. But now that I see the vast majority of people here don't believe my story even though the same thing could happen to them any day (and they won't get their money back mind you), I'm determined to prove what I have said is all true.

As I said I will post the police report once I get it and anything that might help convince these guys.

[PollyEmory]

[ QUOTE ]
1. If it was to inform the public, the public doesn't care.


[/ QUOTE ]

Speak for yourself, thanks.

Neteller123, I'm waiting to see how this turns out especially if NT can figure out how the hack happened because that'll give the rest of the users an idea of how to protect ourselves. So please keep posting updates.

Yeah -- denial she is a powerful mistress. Maybe if this guy is a flake or a liar or a troll then magically our money is safe and nothing like that can happen. For everyone who has an account: you're not at all curious to get an inside view of NT's fraud investigation should your money ever go bye-bye?

I'm an employee of a US bank that has a large online business, and what he is encountering not only sounds plausable, but is pretty much standard procedure when fraud occurs. My bank doesn't require a police report (but it is not out of the realm of possibility that some might) but they won't start investigating until they send you a list of your transactions among which you must identify fraudulent ones and have that list notarized.

What I don't understand is why people who don't believe him find the need to comment on this thread at all. Surely the easiest way for a thread to die out is for people stop responding to it. And as for doing me a public service by pointing out frauds, well gee thank you but my bullshit detector works just fine.

Good luck, Neteller123. Hope it all works out for you.

--Polly

[TStoneMBD]

im sorry that this happened to you. however, it is hard to believe because you are the first person to ever say anything like this about neteller and you are a new poster. we get alot of troll accounts posting reports of certain sites scamming them, but we never get these reports from reputable twoplustwo members.

im going to give you the benefit of the doubt that this actually happened to you, because there is nothing to be gained by simply saying it didnt. however, if we dont see any screenshots of your police report or neteller information noone is going to believe you, including me.

if this really did happen to you, i appreciate you bringing this to our attention.

[gulebjorn]

As I said in the original post, I think this is theredpill trolling.

[neteller123]

Thank you very much.

Just finished talking to Wachovia on the phone. They are going to send me an affidavit. Once I get it I will post a pic. In case you are wondering why the h.e.l.l. I was talking to Wachovia, whoever stole my money made a transfer from my Wachovia checking account to my neteller account before making any withdrawals (presumably to a poker account).

[neteller123]

[ QUOTE ]
im sorry that this happened to you. however, it is hard to believe because you are the first person to ever say anything like this about neteller and you are a new poster.

[/ QUOTE ]

As I said in the original thread, what bugs/confuses me the most is that it seems that I'm the first (or one of the very few) person to report this on 2+2. For one thing, I'm definitely a computer savvy person. And also when I talked to investigator Tim about it and suggested it could be a hacker who somehow got hold of my account info, he looked at me straight in the eyes and said something like "No offense, but why would someone hack you? They could steal tons more money if they can hack online banks."

Again, please wait for me to post pics of the police report and the affidavit from Wachovia once I get them.

[pokerstudAA]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Can they at least tell you what "RM Costa Rica" is?
-Mike

[/ QUOTE ]

Unfortunately, according to the rep from their investigation dept, they can't at this point. But she said she was going to contact the merchant immediately.

[/ QUOTE ]


Poker Stars is based in Costa Rica.

[Emperor]

Investigator Tim is a moron. 1 out of every 3 people in America have been "hacked". He should look it up.

You aren't the first person to mention having your neteller hacked. Another poster linked to two other threads. There have been others as well. Usually the money is moved to a pokersite and then moved elsewhere.

In your case however they actualy moved money from a checking account, which means they were using your password and not just youre secure ID.

Did you call the FBI yet? I'm curious as to what they have to say considering they deal with thousands of cases daily.

[Jeff W]

Keylogger?

Scour your computer for viruses, trojans and spyware. Use a rootkit detector if you have to.

These threads are making me [censored] paranoid. How do I change my neteller secure ID?

[Synergistic Explosions]

So Neteller won't tell you which site PM in Costa Rica is?

That's kind of odd, considering you supposedly let them take money from your account. What harm would it do to Neteller to release what site it was?

If you knew, then you could contact that site and see if someone set up an account there in your name.

Hi. It seems like my presence in this thread is required.

[PrincipalSkinner]

If this happened to me, I would expect that Neteller would certainly tell me who or what RM Costa Rica is, just to make sure I had no knowledge of that party, had not made the transfer while drunk, that it wasn't my girlfriend's brother, etc.

Next I would expect them to immediately contact RM Costa Rica in an attempt to salvage my money, since the chance of salvage decreases dramatically with time.

If I read your posts correctly, Neteller refused to give you any amplifying information about RM Costa Rica, made no immediate attempt to salvage your money, and told you to call back on Monday because nobody could deal with this sort of thing on the weekend.

Did I miss something, or is this the correct version of what happened?

[Nalapoint1]

FWIW I detected a keystroke logger on my computer 2 weeks ago.Even though I have a firewall, antivirus, addaware and spyware and run it daily it still got through. I am not very good with computer so I really dont know if it was successfull but I changed all my passwords and I did catch it before I signed on to any sites.

[neteller123]

[ QUOTE ]

If I read your posts correctly, Neteller refused to give you any amplifying information about RM Costa Rica, made no immediate attempt to salvage your money, and told you to call back on Monday because nobody could deal with this sort of thing on the weekend.

Did I miss something, or is this the correct version of what happened?

[/ QUOTE ]

You are correct. To be fair, today the investigation rep did tell me as soon as she got off the phone with me she would contact the merchant (RM Costa Rica) although she didn't mention anything about "salvaging the money".

[StacysMom]

making a second thread is jsut screaming for more attention. I call troll.

[PollyEmory]

[ QUOTE ]
That's kind of odd, considering you supposedly let them take money from your account. What harm would it do to Neteller to release what site it was?


[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think it can, really. Merchants are clients of Neteller same as us users. If his money was transferred to say your Neteller account, would you expect Neteller to give him your information without some proof of fraud?

BTW -- why not just create a poll or something? Neteller123 is a fraud: Yes/No. Sure would save all the "I call bullshit!" posts. An electron saved is an electron earned.

--Polly

[PrincipalSkinner]

Well, curiosity has gotten the better of me, so I decided to give Neteller a call and ask them point-blank about their procedures (especially the one about "call back on Monday").

I didn't get far, however, since the only phone # listed on "My account" page is 1-86-neteller. Big help.

Do you have a valid toll-free # for the USA?

[GrannyMae]

I didn't get far, however, since the only phone # listed on "My account" page is 1-86-neteller. Big help.

Do you have a valid toll-free # for the USA?


yeah, here's one

1-86-neteller

there is little letters on your phone principalskinner. they correspond to numbers.

[Iplayragstoo]

LOL...nh /images/graemlins/laugh.gif

[PrincipalSkinner]

Having found a valid phone #, I just got off the phone with Neteller "security".

Let me say that the two guys I spoke with gave a whole new dimension to the word "lame".

Let me next say that everything Neteller123 says happened could very well have happened.

When I pointed out how important it is to follow up immediately when a situation like this is encountered, the supervisor agreed with me; but said that "unfortunately they oftentimes have nobody there on the weekends who can contact the transferree".

When asked about the non-working phone number on the "my account" page, he said "Oh yes, we've been aware of that for quite some time and have been meaning to fix it."

He had never heard of 2+2, which means nothing but kind of surprised me.

He was quick to point out that Neteller was not responsible for any lost moneys.

He also indicated that even if somebody had been there Friday night who could have emailed the merchant, many merchants do not bother to read their emails until Monday anyway; so nothing was really lost by delaying action until Monday.

Bottom line, this is not like your credit card where there are people standing by 24 hours a day at a toll-free # where you can report a lost or stolen credit card and they will take immediate action.

The overall impression made by the "security supervisor" was that since Neteller is not going to be responsible for your lost money, it's not a high priority for them.

Fraud specialists should do their best work on Friday evenings, since the trail will be plenty cold by Monday.

And no, they won't tell you jack about the account your money got transferred to.

I'm going to have to do some serious thinking about just leaving my money in Neteller.

[Aytumious]

[ QUOTE ]
Well, curiosity has gotten the better of me, so I decided to give Neteller a call and ask them point-blank about their procedures (especially the one about "call back on Monday").

I didn't get far, however, since the only phone # listed on "My account" page is 1-86-neteller. Big help.

Do you have a valid toll-free # for the USA?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm amazed that this post is serious.

[Armand_Tamzarian]

[ QUOTE ]

How do I change my neteller secure ID?

[/ QUOTE ]

Anyone know if this is possible?

[ipp147]

[ QUOTE ]
Of course I knew Neteller is an offshore company thus out of U.S. jurisdiction. But I will see what I can do and keep you guys posted about the outcome. Call FBI maybe. Call FSA (Neteller is FSA regulated whatever that means). That sort of thing.

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi,

I haven't read all of the responses and have no idea whether this is an actual problem or if you are witholding info but regarding the above.

Neteller are not what I would call offshore. They are listed on a UK stock exchange.

The FSA is the financial services authority. Here is a link to the complaints page,

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/consumer/02_HOW/Complain/mn_complaint.html

note the address .gov.uk. They are not without powers.

If you are geniuine then good luck.

[Freudian]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

How do I change my neteller secure ID?

[/ QUOTE ]

Anyone know if this is possible?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes it is. Pasting from the reply I got when mailing them about having my secure ID changed.

"You have contacted us by email. However, due to the nature of this issue, a direct phone contact is required.

Please call in to speak with a representative from the NETeller Security Department, so we may deal with this matter more efficiently. If you cannot call at this time, please email us the most convenient time to contact you, and the phone number you would like us to contact you at.

SECURITY DEPARTMENT PHONE (Choose option #0 then select option #2)

TOLL FREE PHONE – United States, and Canada
1.888.258.5859

TOLL FREE PHONE – United Kingdom, France, Germany, Netherlands, Spain, Denmark, Italy, Norway, Sweden, Finland , Greece, Poland, Portugal, Israel, Taiwan, Japan, Australia, China (Hong Kong)
00.800.7767.6343

INTERNATIONAL PHONE
001.403.233.9466

SECURITY DEPARTMENT EMAIL
admin@neteller.com

Thank you for your patience and cooperation regarding this matter."

[Armand_Tamzarian]

tyvm

[GrannyMae]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well, curiosity has gotten the better of me, so I decided to give Neteller a call and ask them point-blank about their procedures (especially the one about "call back on Monday").

I didn't get far, however, since the only phone # listed on "My account" page is 1-86-neteller. Big help.

Do you have a valid toll-free # for the USA?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm amazed that this post is serious.

[/ QUOTE ]

this poster is one of my {beep/MH}. it certainly made my day to stumble upon the post.

[OldYoda]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Well, curiosity has gotten the better of me, so I decided to give Neteller a call and ask them point-blank about their procedures (especially the one about "call back on Monday").

I didn't get far, however, since the only phone # listed on "My account" page is 1-86-neteller. Big help.

Do you have a valid toll-free # for the USA?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm amazed that this post is serious.

[/ QUOTE ]

this poster is one of my {beep/MH}. it certainly made my day to stumble upon the post.

[/ QUOTE ]

The OP was trying to protect his secret identity. Guess he's out of the closet now. Thanks, Granny.

[SoCalRugger]

[ QUOTE ]
FWIW I detected a keystroke logger on my computer 2 weeks ago.Even though I have a firewall, antivirus, addaware and spyware and run it daily it still got through. I am not very good with computer so I really dont know if it was successfull but I changed all my passwords and I did catch it before I signed on to any sites.

[/ QUOTE ]
What's the recommended program for detecting keyloggers?

[radek2166]

[ QUOTE ]
I didn't get far, however, since the only phone # listed on "My account" page is 1-86-neteller. Big help.

Do you have a valid toll-free # for the USA?


yeah, here's one

1-86-neteller

there is little letters on your phone principalskinner. they correspond to numbers.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really? Damn now Dan Patrick better watch out. I know how to call ESPN Radio.


Thanks Granny!!!!!!!!

[KaBoom]

I beleive you mate. I don't trust Neteller 100% but there aren't any competetive options out there. Here is an email I got from Neteller yesterday:

Dear NETELLER Member:

Recently you attempted to transfer an amount from your NETELLER Account to an online merchant site. Unfortunately, this transaction exceeded the transfer limit for your account level. In accordance with our Account Limits Policy, this transaction has been denied.

To ensure the success of future transfer transactions, please upgrade your Account. Simply sign in to your NETELLER Account at www.neteller.com (http://www.neteller.com) and click the "Upgrade your Account" link in the QuickLinks section of the Accounts page.

After you have updated your Account you can initiate another transfer transaction on the merchant site.

Thank you.

NETELLER Customer Service Team

I have 3K in my account but haven't tried to make a big transfer. Moved $600 to Party for the bonus yesterday and that wasn't denied. Time to move the remaining $2400 to my bank and quickly!

[BOTW]

[ QUOTE ]
What's the recommended program for detecting keyloggers?

[/ QUOTE ]

Besides Adaware and anti-virus programs, I like HijackThis (http://www.download.com/HijackThis/3000-8022_4-10227353.html), since, as far as I know, it will show all running processes including keyloggers. If you know nothing about computers, you'll need help from guys like hjt.iamnotageek.com to analyze it. Once you know what "safe" processes you have, you should be able to tell when you get hacked.

[Arnfinn Madsen]

Hi,
If this is true I suggest you investigate yourself and try to trail your money.

First clue (search for RM Costa Rica):

Radio Maria Costa Rica (abb. RM Costa Rica) is a catholic radio station. My knowledge of this radio station from an other country is that it aggressively asks for donations.

[mattw]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi. It seems like my presence in this thread is required.

[/ QUOTE ]

if you have something to contribute, please do. otherwise this is batman, superman, spiderman, lone ranger, dutch boyd to the rescue.

[mattw]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hi. It seems like my presence in this thread is required.

[/ QUOTE ]

if you have something to contribute, please do. otherwise this is batman, superman, spiderman, lone ranger, dutch boyd to the rescue.

[/ QUOTE ]

oops, forgot john wayne.

[PapaSan]

Get a new lead Sherlock , i highly doubt a church is defrauding people's neteller accounts. RM also stands for Real Madrid maybe the football club is going bankrupt and this is how they raise funds?

[mattw]

[ QUOTE ]
Hi,
If this is true I suggest you investigate yourself and try to trail your money.

First clue (search for RM Costa Rica):

Radio Maria Costa Rica (abb. RM Costa Rica) is a catholic radio station. My knowledge of this radio station from an other country is that it aggressively asks for donations.

[/ QUOTE ]

very good suggestion. reminds me of the ending in the movie "sneakers."

[caliente]

[ QUOTE ]
In case you are wondering why the h.e.l.l. I was talking to Wachovia, whoever stole my money made a transfer from my Wachovia checking account to my neteller account before making any withdrawals (presumably to a poker account).

[/ QUOTE ]

If you notify your bank that someone transfered $$$ out of your account using EFT without your authorization, your bank has to put the money back. See the Federal Reserve Bank's Regulation E. This rule only applies to consumer accounts (not commercial accounts).

[Orpheus]

Just for the purposes of discussion (since anything would be more informative than debates on the OPs credibility):

I hope you are suggesting that "Regulation E" (aka 12 CFR 205) might provide protection from Wachovia's part of the transaction, rather than the Neteller side, because:

1) NetTeller isn't a US company, so The Federal Reserve regs don't apply to it (and usually only tangentially affect transactions between it and US financial institutions)

2) Neteller may not be regulated as a "bank" in any jurisdiction. Paypal never was, though it strived to qualify as a "real bank" from its inception in 1997 (X.com) until its purchase by eBay. Alas, the increase in respectability (and boost in potential IPO price) came with too many nasty restrictions, like accountability to customers, financial regulation and disclosure, non-arbitrary policies, etc. (I'm not anti-PayPal: I've been a happy -if sometimes worried- customer since the beginning, before it was called PayPal)

Moreover, in the law you cited, there are several clauses that may exclude the transactions between Wachovia and Neteller from this law. I'm not a banking lawyer, but here are just a few:

Regulation E (12 CFR 205)
205.3 Coverage
(c) Exclusions from coverage

(3) Wire or other similar transfers. Any transfer of funds through Fedwire or through a similar wire transfer system that is used primarily for transfers between financial institutions or between businesses [Note: such as Wachovia and Neteller]

(6) Telephone-initiated transfers. Any transfer of funds that:
(i) Is initiated by a telephone communication between a consumer and a financial institution making the transfer;
and
(ii) Does not take place under a telephone bill-payment or other written plan in which periodic or recurring transfers are contemplated.
[Note: we don't know if the transaction was performed by computer or by phone after the computer was hacked, and the requisite data compromised. Neteller routinely authorizes and verifies transactions over the phone that they won't do online. It's the "bald-faced test": most internet crooks feel more secure hiding behind a screen -- though phone based crime has a far longer (and financially larger) historyu, and is no harder (possibly easier) "Inside jobs" by family or acquaintances with physical access to the computer, account numbers and codes are surprisingly common]

(7) Small institutions. Any preauthorized transfer to or from an account if the assets of the accountholding financial institution were $100 million or less on the preceding December 31, 2001. If assets of the accountholding
institution subsequently exceed $100 million, the institution’s exemption for preauthorized transfers terminates one year from the end of the calendar year
in which the assets exceed $100 million. Preauthorized transfers exempt under this paragraph (c)(7) remain subject to § 205.10(e) regarding compulsory use and sections 915 and 916 of the act regarding civil and criminal liability.

[Note: Actually, I was thinking about the final recipient RM Costa Rica, when I pasted this clause, but it serves as a good example of the many exemptions for "pre-authorised transfera". I don't know about your bank, but that's how NeTeller, PayPal IGM-pay EFTs show up when I check my checking account online.

The wording of the line item is no accident: there many exemptions in the Federal Reserve regs for "pre-authorized transfers", have been subverted in practice. It doesn't mean what you think (or perhaps what it originally did). Today, it's "pre-authorized" by your bank T&C. That's the only way, for example, the initial sub-$1 "account verification" deposits could take place routinely.

Preauthorization by T&C turns a "consumer protection" into a convenience and "waiver" for the bank I never told my bank I was going to do business with PayPal, Neteller, IGM-pay, etc.--did you? Did you ever specifically pre-authorize your bank to send money from your checking account to them?]

[Arnfinn Madsen]

[ QUOTE ]
Get a new lead Sherlock , i highly doubt a church is defrauding people's neteller accounts. RM also stands for Real Madrid maybe the football club is going bankrupt and this is how they raise funds?

[/ QUOTE ]

Never thought them behind it, but some of their followers are fanatic enough to consider OP's money ill earned and if they had access to his account details they could transfer it there.

Just a 0,1% shot, my point was that OP will probably be able to track these money down if he puts some effort in it. Somebody stole money from my credit card (fraud involving 1000s of cards) and I found out where the money had went and then the bank paid me back immediately.

[caliente]

[ QUOTE ]

I hope you are suggesting that "Regulation E" (aka 12 CFR 205) might provide protection from Wachovia's part of the transaction...


[/ QUOTE ]

This might answer most of your questions:

http://www.fdic.gov/regulations/laws/rules/6500-3200.html

[ricochet420]

Oh of course there is no way a "CHURCH" could be corrupt. Holy sh1t, get a clue you moran. [ QUOTE ]
Get a new lead Sherlock , i highly doubt a church is defrauding people's neteller accounts. RM also stands for Real Madrid maybe the football club is going bankrupt and this is how they raise funds?

[/ QUOTE ]

[CountDuckula]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Hi. It seems like my presence in this thread is required.

[/ QUOTE ]

if you have something to contribute, please do. otherwise this is batman, superman, spiderman, lone ranger, dutch boyd to the rescue.

[/ QUOTE ]

Looks like the account was deleted, leaving this as authored by "Anonymous". The name of the account was a very mild term equating to the 'S' part of "BS", which appeared to convey the author's opinion of the thread.

-Mike

[other1]

At the risk of continuing a thread that should probably be allowed to die...

Let's assume everything you say is true.. What is it exactly you are upset about other than that your money was stolen? From what you yourself have said, NT is investigating and if they find they are at fault they will refund you. What more did you expect?

[CORed]

Are you sure the email was really from Neteller? It could have been a "phishing" email, with a link to a bogus site that would harvest your ID and password so they could rip you off.

[FlFishOn]

"Yeah -- denial she is a powerful mistress. Maybe if this guy is a flake or a liar or a troll then magically our money is safe and nothing like that can happen."

Brilliantly said. This attitude is everywhere here.

I believe that when these kids invest 60 hours a week playing poker they MUST believe everything is without doubt. perfectly safe and free of cheats. If not then they are dupes and that is a though that will not be entertained.

My eyes remain open, BS detector is at high gain.

[FlFishOn]

"I'm going to have to do some serious thinking about just leaving my money in Neteller. "

My thinking was done long ago. NT is outside the reach of US courts hence unreliable to serve my interests in a pinch.

You leave a four figure sum in NT and you're nuts (I would leave zero except that I would miss some bonii. I balance the potential loss aganst the bonii). You leave more than $1 in any bank account tied to ANY online mover of money and you're a bigger fool.

[theprophe]

About 5 years ago, i got a trojan where someone planted a keylogger in my system. Luckily they made a fatal mistake and changed my email passowrd, so when i checked my mail the next morning my password didn't work. so i tried to login into my ebay account and of course couldn't, i did a search on ebay for my name and all of a sudden i was selling 1,000's of dollars of computer equipment. I ended up creating fake accouts on ebay nad was bidding 1,000's over their worth so i bought them all, so no one got screwed before ebay stopped them, boy that was difficult to get them involved, i suggest you chang passwords every few weeks to be a little safer

[PapaSan]

You believe a corrupt church in costa rica got some guy to defraud this guy's neteller account and you call me a moron?

[PollyEmory]

Ever since the author posted the original thread I've been having some Chicken Little moments about the money I have in NT.

Can anyone suggest an alternative? I'm going to dump most of the NT holding back into my bank account, but in case I need that money rapidly and don't want to spring for InstaCash fees, I'll have to wait 4-6 business days before I can get at it.

Any suggestions are appreciated and my apologies for the thread larceny.

P.S. To the poster who asked the OP what he was upset about (aside from losing his money and all) -- damn, must take a lot to get you ruffled.
--Polly

[Drunk Bob]

Do you work for FirePay?

If so go [censored] yourself!

If not Sorry.

[PollyEmory]

[ QUOTE ]
Do you work for FirePay?

If so go [censored] yourself!

If not Sorry.

[/ QUOTE ]

Wouldn't FirePay be subject to the same issues? Don't know -- just asking. Never read their T&C.

[xniNja]

No one believes this sorta thing until it happens to them. I had a similar situation with Paypal... details aren't identical, but bottom line was their policy is basically "We won't help you, unless you convince us that you can do anything about it, which you probably can't." I don't use paypal anymore, but I've never had a problem with neteller.

[_And1_]

Cored and kaboom, this mail is from neteller and has to do with the imminent European transfer, as you need a certain kind of accoutn to move big $ (i konw 600$ isnt big but in this instance it is)... you need ot be premium member and so forth to be able to have more than 1900$ on the account and so forth.. my guess is that kaboom already uped his membership so the transfer got thru but the mail was still sent as of old membership status... (or so neteller told me, as i had the same occur, even thou i m primium)...

[KaBoom]

I'm premium too. Neteller doesn't know why I got the email. All they could do was advise me to change my password.

[joedot]

If I were you, I would attack this from the banking side. Since Neteller support obviously sucks S.H.I.T I would contact my bank and tell them that an unauthorized transaction was allowed to go through. I would also tell them that you have filed a police report, and are getting absolutely no help from Neteller. You might want to wait until Neteller responds after you send them the afadavit, but if they continue to be indignant pricks about it, then that's the route I would go. Then after your bank takes the money back, maybe Neteller will get their sht together. gl

[Ro-me-ro]

[ QUOTE ]
11.2. It is your responsibility to keep your Account identification, secure identification, password, security questions and answers and other information specific to your Account confidential and in a safe and secure place. Should another person gain access to your Account by passing all identification and security validation and verification checks, we are entitled to treat any transaction conducted by that person as valid and authorised by you and are not responsible for any loss or damage you may incur as a result.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
11.5. You acknowledge and agree that all electronic money purchases, transfers or withdrawals into or out of your Account are final and not reversible. NETeller cannot arrange for your Account to be refunded where you believe the purchase, transfer or withdrawal was made in error.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think you are screwed /images/graemlins/frown.gif

Rom

[neteller123]

Latest Development

Okay the good news is I got my money back today. But the truth is, Neteller didn't act promptly to recover my loss. They (and I) just somehow got "lucky". And as I said before, Neteller was NOT going to refund me if they failed to recover the money.

I called Neteller investigation dept rep Brittany back on Monday because I decided I wasn't going to take the "no police report no info" BS no more. I asked her who the merchant "RM Costa Rica" was and to my supprise she told me right away the company URL was www.xodds.com (http://www.xodds.com) and she had sent them an email but hadn't heard back from them. She said she didn't call coz no phone numbers were listed on that website.

I got off the phone and went to www.xodds.com (http://www.xodds.com) and sure enough, there were a bunch of phone numbers. It took me some time to actually talk to a customer rep from www.xodds.com (http://www.xodds.com) as they are based in UK. Anyhow, I told the lady what happened to me and gave her my Neteller account ID. Then a day later I called back and she said they were looking into it but she was not in a position to release any info at this point. I said at least tell me if there was any money left in that account and she said yes. Based on her tone I thought I was probably going to be bailed out this time. And today I called Brittany and she told me they contacted www.xodds.com (http://www.xodds.com) and were able to recover the money. The money was in my Neteller account as we spoke on the phone, but I told her to leave the account closed coz I needed some time to think about what to do with it.

Of course I'm thrilled I got my money back and Neteller did help in recovering the loss. I'm probably going to continue to use Neteller as I have no better alternative. But the following facts still remain true.

1. My money was stolen on Thursday and I found out on Saturday. Neteller refused to offer any help besides closing my account and told me to call their investigation dept on Monday (TWO days later!!!!!).

2. On Monday Neteller's investigation dept refused to offer any help until I went to file a police report and fax it to them. It later became evident that they didn't need the f.u.cking report to start investigation and the recovering process because Neteller still doesn't have a copy of the police report as this message is posted. They were just being difficult.

3. Neteller was NOT going to give me my money back had they not successfully recovered the money from www.xodds.com. (http://www.xodds.com.) It's stated in their T&C. They are a UK company and they are NOT an online bank. Neteller is not under the US jurisdiction therefore your money is not safe with them.

This thread isn't over yet because most people here still don't believe what I said really happened. Please be patient and wait for the pics of the police report, Wachovia's affidavit and my Neteller account summary (once I reopen it). My only motive is to alert you guys as this could happen to any of you.

[ricochet420]

well, glad to hear you got your money back. This raises some concerns though. Are there NO other reasonable alternatives to Neteller?

[OldYoda]

[ QUOTE ]
Latest Development

Okay the good news is I got my money back today. But the truth is, Neteller didn't act promptly to recover my loss. They (and I) just somehow got "lucky". And as I said before, Neteller was NOT going to refund me if they failed to recover the money.

I called Neteller investigation dept rep Brittany back on Monday because I decided I wasn't going to take the "no police report no info" BS no more. I asked her who the merchant "RM Costa Rica" was and to my supprise she told me right away the company URL was www.xodds.com (http://www.xodds.com) and she had sent them an email but hadn't heard back from them. She said she didn't call coz no phone numbers were listed on that website.

I got off the phone and went to www.xodds.com (http://www.xodds.com) and sure enough, there were a bunch of phone numbers. It took me some time to actually talk to a customer rep from www.xodds.com (http://www.xodds.com) as they are based in UK. Anyhow, I told the lady what happened to me and gave her my Neteller account ID. Then a day later I called back and she said they were looking into it but she was not in a position to release any info at this point. I said at least tell me if there was any money left in that account and she said yes. Based on her tone I thought I was probably going to be bailed out this time. And today I called Brittany and she told me they contacted www.xodds.com (http://www.xodds.com) and were able to recover the money. The money was in my Neteller account as we spoke on the phone, but I told her to leave the account closed coz I needed some time to think about what to do with it.

Of course I'm thrilled I got my money back and Neteller did help in recovering the loss. I'm probably going to continue to use Neteller as I have no better alternative. But the following facts still remain true.

1. My money was stolen on Thursday and I found out on Saturday. Neteller refused to offer any help besides closing my account and told me to call their investigation dept on Monday (TWO days later!!!!!).

2. On Monday Neteller's investigation dept refused to offer any help until I went to file a police report and fax it to them. It later became evident that they didn't need the f.u.cking report to start investigation and the recovering process because Neteller still doesn't have a copy of the police report as this message is posted. They were just being difficult.

3. Neteller was NOT going to give me my money back had they not successfully recovered the money from www.xodds.com. (http://www.xodds.com.) It's stated in their T&C. They are a UK company and they are NOT an online bank. Neteller is not under the US jurisdiction therefore your money is not safe with them.

This thread isn't over yet because most people here still don't believe what I said really happened. Please be patient and wait for the pics of the police report, Wachovia's affidavit and my Neteller account summary (once I reopen it). My only motive is to alert you guys as this could happen to any of you.

[/ QUOTE ]

I guess I am just way suspicious. I wouldn't click on that URL or go to that website under any circumstances for any amount of money.

[ddollevoet]

I am glad you got your money back, but I don't think that Neteller acted unreasonably at all. You made them aware of the situation. They investigated it. They found your money. They returned it. Quite frankly, if you call any corporate office in America on Saturday, no one will get back to you until at least Monday.

Also, how can you not think it was reasonable for Neteller to ask you to provide some type of information to prove that you are who you said you were and what happened actually happened? How do they know that YOU weren't the one committing fraud???

As far as making me aware of the risks:

I could get killed in a car accident tonight while driving home, but I know the risks and do whatever I can to minimize them to acceptable level. Driving my car is, quite simply, the safest and most convenient way for me to get around town.

If you want to move money around on the internet in the most safe and convenient manner, I suggest you take the necessary steps to minimze your risks so that this doesn't happen to you again. I don't see this happening to any of the dozens (hundreds?) of people on this on this board who are moving thousands of dollars around everyday.

[CountDuckula]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess I am just way suspicious. I wouldn't click on that URL or go to that website under any circumstances for any amount of money.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll do it, from Linux partition at home tonight. I'm curious, and I'm willing to bet that my Linux defenses are up to the challenge. /images/graemlins/smile.gif I wouldn't put the XP side to the test, though....

-Mike

[CountDuckula]

[ QUOTE ]
If you want to move money around on the internet in the most safe and convenient manner, I suggest you take the necessary steps to minimze your risks so that this doesn't happen to you again. I don't see this happening to any of the dozens (hundreds?) of people on this on this board who are moving thousands of dollars around everyday.

[/ QUOTE ]

Going back to a previous suggestion I made earlier in the thread (which I got from others along the way), a really good way to protect your finances is to have a separate account used exclusively for Neteller transactions. Only put money there when you need to. That way, even if someone compromises your Neteller account down the road, they can't draw money out of your bank account.

-Mike

[neteller123]

[ QUOTE ]
I am glad you got your money back, but I don't think that Neteller acted unreasonably at all.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you serious man? If you had your Neteller money stolen and Neteller weren't able to recover it, they would NOT give you your money back. Do you honestly think that's reasonable?

Again, Neteller is a UK company and they are NOT a bank, so you cannot expect the same from them as you do with BoA or Wachovia. That's what I meant by "Your money is not safe with Neteller".

Your last comment basically says "This s.h.i.t. probably won't happen to me so my money is safe with Neteller". I have no comment on that one.

[neteller123]

[ QUOTE ]

Going back to a previous suggestion I made earlier in the thread (which I got from others along the way), a really good way to protect your finances is to have a separate account used exclusively for Neteller transactions. Only put money there when you need to. That way, even if someone compromises your Neteller account down the road, they can't draw money out of your bank account.

-Mike

[/ QUOTE ]

I will definitely do that. As a matter of fact, I have already opened an account today at another bank and plan to use it exclusively for Neteller. But it doesn't solve the whole problem.

[PrincipalSkinner]

I find the most curious part of this whole episode to be the fact that the thieves had not moved the money beyond reach considering all the time they had to do so. Any thoughts on this?

[neteller123]

[ QUOTE ]
I find the most curious part of this whole episode to be the fact that the thieves had not moved the money beyond reach considering all the time they had to do so. Any thoughts on this?

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been wondering about the same thing and that's what I meant by "Neteller and I somehow got lucky" and "Neteller didn't act promptly to recover my loss".

I probably will get more info on this as xodds is going to send a report to neteller and I should able to get a copy once I fax the police report to neteller.

[illogical]

[ QUOTE ]
I find the most curious part of this whole episode to be the fact that the thieves had not moved the money beyond reach considering all the time they had to do so. Any thoughts on this?

[/ QUOTE ]

Very fishy...this story

[Emperor]

I would bet on AVERAGE it takes 30 days to cashout from an online casino.

It isn't like a PokerSite cashout. Most also require you to fax 37 forms of Identification to make a cashout.

I had 2 separate casinos take over 90days to cashout my money. I kept getting, "oops, for some reason your cashout has been cancelled for no reason. I will mark it to be cashed out, but you know it will probably take 20-30days"

Lucky it went to a casino and not a poker account.

[naschburger2]

If there is a more secure alternative to neteller please let me know but I will risk it for the flexibility it gives me and I have never had a problem other than neteller being overly cautious which is okay with me.
I would be interested if you find out the details of how this hack was achieved and if there is a suggestion from neteller as to how to avoid it in the future.

[CountDuckula]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I guess I am just way suspicious. I wouldn't click on that URL or go to that website under any circumstances for any amount of money.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll do it, from Linux partition at home tonight. I'm curious, and I'm willing to bet that my Linux defenses are up to the challenge. /images/graemlins/smile.gif I wouldn't put the XP side to the test, though....

[/ QUOTE ]

Ok, I've wandered over there via Linux, and it appears to be a site for betting on financial market activity, recently merged with BetOnMarkets.com. My guess is that whoever compromised the OP's Neteller account moved the money over there, but wasn't able to cash it out before this was resolved.

Did you get all of your money back, or had some of it been gambled away?

-Mike

...who has spent the past 2+ hours unravelling a problem with ZoneAlarm on the XP side of things (tried reinstalling ZA, ran a virus scan, and ended up using good ol' System Restore), and is quite put out at not being able to play poker this evening. /images/graemlins/mad.gif </rant>

[neteller123]

Update

So I called Neteller today and had my account reactivated. I opened a new bank account a couple days ago and plan to use it exclusively for Neteller. I also had Neteller disable debit from that bank account to Neteller so now my bank account is 100% safe.

I have pics of Wachovia's affidavit and my Neteller account summary but I don't know how to post them. Any suggestions?

[CountDuckula]

I think the easiest way is to put them on a website and use the Image "Instant UBB Code" below; it will ask for the URL to your pic, and that should do it.

-Mike

[Stormwolf]

Your nickname its just too funny for someone who got hacked, seriously, why did you choose it?

[neteller123]

[ QUOTE ]
Your nickname its just too funny for someone who got hacked, seriously, why did you choose it?

[/ QUOTE ]

??? I've said it a thousand times. I registered this name AFTER I got hacked.

BTW, do you know how post a pic? I have two pics on Yahoo but when I use Instant UBB Code Image all I get is a line of text ...

[Stormwolf]

http://www.photobucket.com/
you have to make an account there, upload, get the url then post by clicking on image and pasting the url

[neteller123]

Thanks a lot, Stormwolf.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b7/neteller123/neteller.jpg

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b7/neteller123/wachovia.jpg

[awval999]

It looks like "RM Costa Rica" gave a credit to your account as well as an "Adjustment" credit possibly from Neteller.

Am I correct to assume you have been refunded the money by "RM Costa Rica" and/or Neteller?

[raisethatmofo]

[TomBrooks]

Nice documentation. Paperwork with everything blanked out - that's real helpful.

Also, I'm unclear as to whether you joined 2+2 just to tell us about a Neteller problem or if you were a prior poster who didn't want to use your regular posting account. Could you please advise again which of those it is?

If you are a new poster, could you explain to me again why you have a sudden interest in 2+2; and if you are an existing poster, could you explain to me again why you didn't post this with your regular posting account?

[neteller123]

[ QUOTE ]
It looks like "RM Costa Rica" gave a credit to your account as well as an "Adjustment" credit possibly from Neteller.

Am I correct to assume you have been refunded the money by "RM Costa Rica" and/or Neteller?

[/ QUOTE ]

The Neteller "adjustment" is for the instaCash charge. I reactivated my Neteller account yesterday and called them about the charge and they gave me the refund within 30 seconds.

[neteller123]

[ QUOTE ]
this story is definitely fishy. Someone who is smart enough to hack Neteller couldn't get the money to himself after getting it out of neteller ?

Are you sure that you weren't drunk some night and depositing money somewhere that you thought was a poker site but wasn't ?

[/ QUOTE ]

My f.u.ck.ing God, still fishy? What's your f.uc.king problem? The thief somehow didn't or couldn't withdraw the money quickly enough from www.xodds.com (http://www.xodds.com) and that makes me a liar? WTF????

[contentless]

[ QUOTE ]
I would bet on AVERAGE it takes 30 days to cashout from an online casino.

I had 2 separate casinos take over 90days to cashout my money.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry about your experience, but no.

[neteller123]

[ QUOTE ]
Nice documentation. Paperwork with everything blanked out - that's real helpful.

Also, I'm unclear as to whether you joined 2+2 just to tell us about a Neteller problem or if you were a prior poster who didn't want to use your regular posting account. Could you please advise again which of those it is?

If you are a new poster, could you explain to me again why you have a sudden interest in 2+2; and if you are an existing poster, could you explain to me again why you didn't post this with your regular posting account?

[/ QUOTE ]

Listen up, smart a*s*s, I've said it a thousand times in my prior messages that
1. I have a regular 2+2 account and
2. I registered this neteller123 account last Saturday to report this incident to you guys.

As for those numbers being blanked out, I did that to protect my privacy (so that nobody can identify they are MY documents). I don't think you need to see those numbers to believe my story. If you still think I'm trolling then those numbers won't make you think otherwise.

I have done my best to convince you guys and I can't believe I'm still getting all this "you story is fishy" nonsense.

[steelcmg]

r u sure u where not just really drunk one night and deposited the money into xodds urself and forgot all about it. I know i have gotten pretty wasted and played poker and didnt remember playing and when i would look at my account again it was a few $ short.

[neteller123]

[ QUOTE ]
r u sure u where not just really drunk one night and deposited the money into xodds urself and forgot all about it. I know i have gotten pretty wasted and played poker and didnt remember playing and when i would look at my account again it was a few $ short.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are you serious man? Say I was drunk. I went to a website I had never heard of (not even a poker site) and created an account. I transferred all my money in Neteller to the new account.. Oh wait, I figured I needed more so I paid $60+ dollars to withdraw some money from my bank account using instaCash.

Two days later I still didn't remember what had happened and thought my Neteller money was stolen. After a week and numerous calls to Neteller and xodds, neither Neteller nor xodds nor me could figure out it was actually me (silly me) who moved those funds. And again, after being dissed a million times on this board and your kind reminder that I could have done it myself because I was piss drunk (after all you know better than me what I did and was like on Thursday), I still don't remember I was drunk on Thursday. Guess I'm just incredibly dense huh?

Now THAT's a story I'm sure most posters here would rather believe so that they can feel safe about their Neteller money.

What's wrong with you guys? Pull your head out of the f.uc.king sand already.

[PrincipalSkinner]

"What's wrong with you guys? Pull your head out of the f.uc.king sand already."

Can't speak for others, but "what's wrong with me" is that while there is not a doubt in my mind that your story could have happened, it seems like you have gone out of your way to make yourself UN-believable. The secret identity, posting the blank forms--it's all just too remote. PLUS--I just CANNOT envision a hacker/thief who was clever enough to do all that (you say) he did but who then just dropped the ball completely when it came to actually collecting the money (which, after all, would be the point of the whole thing).

Perhaps when this episode has passed, you will look back and reread this thread and come to understand why people are skeptical.

[illogical]

hey neteller123, let me break it down for you... if your story is true.

1) neteller wasn't hacked. You're the only one whose account was hacked.
2)Your account was "hacked" through your own incompetence. Try to keep your personal info safer next time.
3)I have no sympathy for you. See item 2.

[Synergistic Explosions]

[ QUOTE ]
hey neteller123, let me break it down for you... if your story is true.

1) neteller wasn't hacked. You're the only one whose account was hacked.
2)Your account was "hacked" through your own incompetence. Try to keep your personal info safer next time.
3)I have no sympathy for you. See item 2.

[/ QUOTE ]

Thats harsh.

I believe the guy. Why not? What does he have to gain by coming forward with this incident? Nothing.

All that matters is that in the end, all was resolved and no money was lost. Most of us use Neteller and have had no problems. But the fact is, problems do occassionaly crop up at all places that deal with money transfers.

I just don't see why doubting him serves any purpose now. It's over and done with. All is good in the world again.

Let it be.

[neteller123]

[ QUOTE ]
hey neteller123, let me break it down for you... if your story is true.

1) neteller wasn't hacked. You're the only one whose account was hacked.
2)Your account was "hacked" through your own incompetence. Try to keep your personal info safer next time.
3)I have no sympathy for you. See item 2.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sheesh, what makes you think I give a rat's a*s*s about your sympathy? My point is, your Neteller account could get hacked and Neteller WILL NOT TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR LOSS because they are not regulated as a U.S. bank. Get it?

Again, I don't need your sympathy and I don't have a doubt you are an uber nerd who knows how to secure your home network.

[Emperor]

I love how you posted contradictory evidence with your opinion.

My experience: (Since you brought it up)

Whored EVERY casino worth whoring including all the stickies.

The ONLY cahsouts that were less than 14 days were Iglobalmedia casinos.

The rest were closer to 30 days.

And yes some (Aztec and related)took 90 days+


Most of them required ID & Utility Bill.


So be happy for your experience, but yes.

[TomBrooks]

You show an affidavit from Wachovia Bank. Ignoring for the moment that the document is mostly blank and devoid any pertainent information including non-personal information such as the amount of the transaction, what does Wachovia Bank have to do with this? And what do the initials ACH as in "ACH Withdrawal" mean?

[neteller123]

[ QUOTE ]
"What's wrong with you guys? Pull your head out of the f.uc.king sand already."

Can't speak for others, but "what's wrong with me" is that while there is not a doubt in my mind that your story could have happened, it seems like you have gone out of your way to make yourself UN-believable. The secret identity, posting the blank forms--it's all just too remote. PLUS--I just CANNOT envision a hacker/thief who was clever enough to do all that (you say) he did but who then just dropped the ball completely when it came to actually collecting the money (which, after all, would be the point of the whole thing).

Perhaps when this episode has passed, you will look back and reread this thread and come to understand why people are skeptical.

[/ QUOTE ]

"Gone out of my way to make myself not credible" ????

1. Secret identity: I admit it's not as credible as an old account.

2. Blanked out numbers: I'm sure you'd be happy to post your name, phone number, address and bank account number online but I'm just not willing to do that. I'm sorry.

3. Thief didn't withdraw money from xodds in time: I had no control over what the thief did. Maybe if the thief had taken all the money out of his xodds account you would believe my story. But quite honestly, I'm happy that he failed to do so. Of course now you have serious doubts about my story. Oh yeah that saddens me so much I wish he had taken all my money instead.

[neteller123]

[ QUOTE ]
You show an affidavit from Wachovia Bank. Ignoring for the moment that the document is mostly blank and devoid of almost any pertainent information including non-personal information such as the amount of the transaction, what does Wachovia Bank have to do with this? And what do the initials ACH as in "ACH Withdrawal" mean?

[/ QUOTE ]

As I've explained in my prior messages over and over again, the hacker made a debit from my Wachovia checking account to my Neteller account using instaCash before withdrawing all the money from my Neteller account.

I think ACH stands for Automated Clearing House.

Again, I don't need your guys' sympathy (why would I? I got all my money back remember?). I blanked out those numbers because that's what I chose to do. If the absence of those numbers makes you think my story is fishy, big deal.

[busguy]

I'm still have a funny feeling about this whole storey . . . but regardless, I thank you for taking the time to keep us updated. Because of your posts, this afternoon I had the EFT and Instacash options turned off on my Neteller account for security purposes. Before this thread, I wasn't aware that you could do that. In talking with Neteller, apparently these options can be turned on or off as requested so all you would need to do to make a withdrawl is make a phone call to have it temporarily turned back on.


busguy

[Nepa]

They couldn't have robbed a nicer person. I really don't feel bad for you.

[OldYoda]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm still have a funny feeling about this whole storey . . . but regardless, I thank you for taking the time to keep us updated. Because of your posts, this afternoon I had the EFT and Instacash options turned off on my Neteller account for security purposes. Before this thread, I wasn't aware that you could do that. In talking with Neteller, apparently these options can be turned on or off as requested so all you would need to do to make a withdrawl is make a phone call to have it temporarily turned back on.


busguy

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't have a funny feeling, quite honestly I can't bring myself to believe the story. The whole secret identity thing and the vague answers just don't do it for me.

But I think this thread illustrates an important point for all of us who participate in internet poker - that is that the security of our financial data is our own responsibility. Not the bank's, not Neteller's - our own. If your story is, in fact, true then the only way this occurred was to have your computer compromised, either physically by someone with access to it. or externally by someone placing a keylogger or trojan on the system. They got your account number, your secure ID and your password. Neteller wasn't hacked, you were. That's the only way this transfer from Neteller to xodds was made.

So I think we need to see this as a cautionary tale - secure your computer and the important financial data on it. It's your own responsibility. And that is as it should be.

[JAque]

I am glad you recovered the money. I have a few questions:

1) Neteller most likely logs the IP address from where a user logs in ( as they will block your account if you live in Australia and try to login from China). Did you ask them from what state/city or country those transactions took place?

2- If it was from your IP address then you know is someone that has access to your PC and data. If it is from a town near by owhere some people that you know live , it could mean the same thing.


3- What was the exaplnation from the UK company as far of whose account received the money? Was it an error in their part? Was this a valid account on their site?

JAque

[ArchAngel71857]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks a lot, Stormwolf.

http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b7/neteller123/neteller.jpg


[/ QUOTE ]

Hahahahahahaha.

Instacash.


-AA

[neteller123]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm still have a funny feeling about this whole storey . . . but regardless, I thank you for taking the time to keep us updated. Because of your posts, this afternoon I had the EFT and Instacash options turned off on my Neteller account for security purposes. Before this thread, I wasn't aware that you could do that. In talking with Neteller, apparently these options can be turned on or off as requested so all you would need to do to make a withdrawl is make a phone call to have it temporarily turned back on.
busguy

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't know that until I explicitly asked Brittany about it. I'm glad you did something because that's why I am still posting here. And it's perfectly fine if you still don't believe my story as long as you have gotten some useful information out of this thread.

But if you don't take any precaution because you think my story is "fishy" therefore Neteller must be safe or they will refund you if you get hacked, then I would feel really bad.

[neteller123]

[ QUOTE ]
I am glad you recovered the money. I have a few questions:

1) Neteller most likely logs the IP address from where a user logs in ( as they will block your account if you live in Australia and try to login from China). Did you ask them from what state/city or country those transactions took place?

2- If it was from your IP address then you know is someone that has access to your PC and data. If it is from a town near by owhere some people that you know live , it could mean the same thing.


3- What was the exaplnation from the UK company as far of whose account received the money? Was it an error in their part? Was this a valid account on their site?

JAque

[/ QUOTE ]

1) Neteller does have the IP log and I plan to get that info as soon as I fax them the police report. I should get the report in the mail sometime this week. I will post a pic of the police report, with numbers and other personal info blanked out.

3) I received a phone call from xodds(betonmarket) this morning. I'm assuming his full name is Jean-Yves Sireau coz that's the name in the confirmation email following the phone call.

He told me there were a spate of 12 similar cases (unauthorized transfer from Neteller to xodds) reported to them last week. Usually they get a report once every three months. I am the only victim they are able to talk to because I've contacted them myself and given them my phone number and Neteller refused to give any phone number to them (I don't blame Neteller on this one).

I was shocked when I heard there were 12 cases last week alone because that's not what Brittany told me. She told me there was one other case. The victim was also computer savvy as he owns a few websites.

He said the account looks legit. They even have a copy of the guy's passport but of course it could be fake. They have tried to contact that guy but he said the guy would hang up the phone without saying a word so it's definitely sketchy.

I asked him how come the hacker didn't withdraw the money from xodds and he said he's wondering about the same thing. The same strange thing also happened to several other accounts. The hacker just seemed not in a rush to get the money. So bizarre.

[William]

Story 1:

About a week ago all europeans had to upgrade their account. After doing that every time you use neteller, you get an e-mail telling you your transfer has been denied, even if in reality it hasn't.
When it was clear to me that this happened automatically after each transfer, I send an e-mail to Neteller and they answered back that they were aware of the bug, that their IT department was fixing it (with no success so far) and that I should disregard the e-mails.
However, the first time I got one of those, I grabbed my phone and called their security dept. I talked to a very agressive lady and explained that besides the e-mail, nothing unusual was going on in my account, no transaction was reported denied and no money was missing but I was of course worried if somebody had tried to move something from my account(the account was empty at that time, so it looked as if a hacker had made an attempt but couldn't succeed as there was nothing to transfer anyway).
The lady just wouldn't listen, she started inmediately telling me that I was responsible of keeping my account information safe and that Neteller was not responsible for any loss, etc... extremely agressive reaction while I was telling her that nothing was missing. After that she suddenly told me we could not continue this conversation unless they called me to the phone number registered in my account.
A few minutes later she called and I asked to talk to somebody in a higher position as it seemed I was talking to a wall and just got lectured on how much it was my responsability to keep my pasword safe and so on. After a few minutes I could talk to a gentlemen that after listening to me told me that the e-mail was probably a mistake from Neteller and if nothing was missing from my account, I should just disregard it.
Later it became obvious it was just a bug on the upgrade.

Story 2:

About a year ago, I was withdrawing 1000$ from my debit card. From the ATM machine I got no money and a receipt telling me the transaction had been refused by the card issuer. I tried 2 other ATM machines from different banks and got the same answer. I went back home and checked my debit card balance and it showed 0$. My Neteller account balance was ok, it showed the withdrawal to the debit card.
I called Neteller, they called back, had to explain everything several times, they said they could see that I had just been paid 1000$ (wich I hadn't) and sent me an e-mail with the last few transactions. I was supposed to find out wich one I was claiming to be wrong and return the e-mail to them wich I did. They said they would investigate the matter and closed my account /images/graemlins/confused.gif
I was of course worried because I had money in the account and it is all I use to transfer money between the different poker sites.
I had to call back and asked them why it was necessary to close my account when I was the victim in the story and after a few hours they called back, told me they had agreed to reopen my account while they were investigating the matter and if it showed that I was telling the truth, it would take aprox. 6 weeks to get my money back from the bank that had not paid me (a bank around the corner, so I thought maybe I could just go and complain, but I decided to just let Neteller handle the matter).
I did send Neteller a last mail telling them that I was expecting they would refund all fees involved in this matter (they charge a penalty if the ATM tells you your transaction is refused and it was very strange that the balance showed 0$ as there is always something left because of the currency exchange)
I got an e-mail back telling me I wouldn't have to pay anything and 5 weeks later 946$ appeared in my debit card.

Neteller never e-mailed me telling me that the money was refunded, I only got 946$ back (from the 1000 AND whatever few dollars where in the debit card at that moment) and I had to pay a fee to find out that the money had been credited back.

After some thought I decided to not complain anymore as the Neteller account is very important to me and I didn't wanted to risk losing that account.

Besides this 2 incidents I have never had any problems with them in the 3 years I have used them, but it is a fact that when an incident occurs, they are not the most helpfull in the world.

Take care,
William

[phish]

I'm glad things worked out for you in the end.

What amazes me is some of the hostile responses you've received. What you described does not seem at all implausible. Do these other guys think that their funds are totally secure whereever they have it? Or do they want so much to believe that they're safe that they refuse to believe anyone who claims to have problems.

I'd like to know how you were hacked. But I know that it could happen to me tomorrow. I try to take precautions but there is no guarantee.

And as for your wanting to remain anonymous and not post details on the net, hell, any prudent person would do the same.

Please keep us up to date on future developments.

[AliasMrJones]

[ QUOTE ]
"The transaction description says RM Costa Rica". A few posters then suggested that my money had been transferred to a poker site since quite a few poker sites are based out of Costa Rica.

Neteller won't release any info to me until they get the police report next week.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. If you called your credit card company and said, "I see a charge from RM Costa Rica on my account and I think it might be fraud. Can you tell me who that merchant is so I can make sure it wasn't something I bought?" Do you really think they would, or even COULD, say, "I'm sorry, we can't tell you until you give us a police report." Or your bank if it were your bank account.

Wait, forget about saying you think it is fraud..."Hello Visa, I see a charge to RM Costa Rica and I forgot what merchant that was, can you tell me?" It is YOUR account -- how could they possibly not tell you where you sent money from your account. I don't care what kind of account it is.

This story is complete BS.

[LinusKS]

I especially like how he's being bashed for not keeping his information "safe," and getting bashed for not posting it on the internet, simultaneously.

/images/graemlins/smile.gif

[LinusKS]

Alias.

Neteller is not a bank, or a credit card, nor is it regulated by any US authority.

That's the whole point of this story, dumbass.

[AliasMrJones]

The point is it is HIS account and any transfer that happens (outside of fraud) is because HE did it. Why would or could they not tell you where you sent money from your account?

OK, say it is PayPal and not Visa. "Hello Paypal, I see a transfer from my account to merchant RM Costa Rica. I don't recall making such a transfer, but I want to be sure. Can you tell me who merchant RM Costa Rica is?"

"Hello vendor X in which I keep an account with my money. I see a transaction to merchant Y and I can't recall who that might be. Can you tell me who merchant Y is so I can see if I remember buying something there?"

It is HIS account. How can they not tell you where "YOU" sent YOUR money? It is rediculous.

[phish]

What I suspect is that because he initially called on the weekend, he got some inexperienced flunkie who really wasn't terribly knowledgeable or interested in helping. This person was just trying to delay things until the weekday crew got here and so told him to get a police report.

I think we've all dealt with inexperienced and incompetant support people. I've had many frustrating conversations with staff at e*trade who tell me one thing and then their supervisor would tell me the correct thing later.

[CountDuckula]

[ QUOTE ]
The point is it is HIS account and any transfer that happens (outside of fraud) is because HE did it. Why would or could they not tell you where you sent money from your account?

OK, say it is PayPal and not Visa. "Hello Paypal, I see a transfer from my account to merchant RM Costa Rica. I don't recall making such a transfer, but I want to be sure. Can you tell me who merchant RM Costa Rica is?"

"Hello vendor X in which I keep an account with my money. I see a transaction to merchant Y and I can't recall who that might be. Can you tell me who merchant Y is so I can see if I remember buying something there?"

It is HIS account. How can they not tell you where "YOU" sent YOUR money? It is rediculous.

[/ QUOTE ]

I've been hearing, and not just from the OP, that Neteller support is very uncooperative in situations like this. They hide behind their T&C that state that they are not responsible for your account being compromised. It appears that the OP had to do most of the legwork that Neteller should have done.

All the OP is doing is warning people to be careful; he's not suggesting that people take their business elsewhere (in fact, he's come out and said he's continuing to use Neteller himself). I think that's a reasonable and laudable effort. I don't see the point of all the bashing that's been going on, and I don't see what the point of manufacturing this story would have been.

-Mike

[LinusKS]

Alias, call Neteller and ask them.

They will tell you they will NOT give you any information about the people who take money out of your account.

Regardless of whether you find that hard to believe, that is their policy.

[phish]

I think many the basher are like ostriches with their heads in the sand. They absolutely refuse to believe that there could be any dangers in their secure little world.

But there are others who seem to exhibit a downright hostility towards the victim. If you don't believe him, that's one thing. But there seem to be some here who believe him but says it's all his fault and they have no sympathy. I guess it's the old blame the victim mentality because that's easier to do than to acknowledge that they too could be vulnerable. If you tag the victim as somehow different from you and hence unworthy of your empathy, it makes you feel more secure that you'd be immune to this.

This is a phenomenon that extends beyond just financial fraud.

[neteller123]

[ QUOTE ]
The point is it is HIS account and any transfer that happens (outside of fraud) is because HE did it. Why would or could they not tell you where you sent money from your account?

OK, say it is PayPal and not Visa. "Hello Paypal, I see a transfer from my account to merchant RM Costa Rica. I don't recall making such a transfer, but I want to be sure. Can you tell me who merchant RM Costa Rica is?"

"Hello vendor X in which I keep an account with my money. I see a transaction to merchant Y and I can't recall who that might be. Can you tell me who merchant Y is so I can see if I remember buying something there?"

It is HIS account. How can they not tell you where "YOU" sent YOUR money? It is rediculous.

[/ QUOTE ]

Did you even read my whole story? Initially Neteller told me they needed a copy of the police report before they could release any info to me. Then on Monday I filed a police report and called Neteller back telling them it was going to take a week or so for me to get the report. Then I called back again asking Brittany who was RM Costa Rica and she told me immediately the merchant was xodds and RM Costa Rica was probably the name of xodds' processor. She released that piece of info to me even though she didn't have a copy of the police report. As a matter of fact, Neteller still doesn't have the police report as we speak because I don't even have it yet. But they have conducted the investigation and recovered the money successfully and given it back to me, contradicting their own words (not mine).

Now tell me what part of the above story doesn't add up, genius?

Get the facts straight before you jump to any conclusions, please.

Calling my story total BS because Neteller's initial reaction was illogical puts you in the same group as the other guy who called me a troll because it doesn't make sense that the hacker didn't withdraw the money from xodds in time.

"What kind of hacker would steal money from Neteller to his xodds account and not take it afterwards? Nobody. So you must be trolling here. Therefore my money is safe with Neteller."

"There's no way that Neteler would refuse to release info to their customer so you must be lying. Therefore my money is safe with Neteller."

Keep up that attitude.

[MrDannimal]

To take money from a NeTeller account, you need to provide the account # and the secure ID (or whatever they call the 2nd, shorter #). To login to NeTeller's website and access your account, you also need your password.

There are a few possible scenarios here:

1) The guy who took the money just got lucky and through brute force got your account #/Secure ID #

2) You gave that information to a site which was either not trustworthy or itself got hacked.

3) You had your account #/Secure ID # sniffed/keylogged

4) You "store" all your login info with your web browser, and some "friend" sat at your computer and did it.

I'm guessing it was #3, simply because of the added wrinkle that the hacker was able to pull money from your Wachovia account (did the ACH/EFT from Wachovia go to NeTeller, or did it go right from Wachovia to some other place? The latter almost assures a keylogger).

Assuming it's a keylogger, that's not NeTeller's fault, and NeTeller wasn't hacked. You let some malicious software get onto your machine, and NeTeller shouldn't be responsible for protecting your computer. They got you your money back, in 6 days no less. Your main argument seems to be that it was a hassle to get it back and took too long.

Assuming it's a dishonest site you gave your NeTeller info to (and I don't understand how money got from Wachovia to anywhere in this scenario), it's still not NeTeller's fault. If I give my friend my ATM card and the PIN, and ask him to get $50 for me, I can't get upset at the bank if my friend gets out $200 and doesn't tell me. You take a risk every time you give your NeTeller info to a website/casino/poker room.

It would be nice to know where the money that came from Wachovia went to, and if it went through NeTeller or not. It'd also be nice to hear you accept some responsibility for the problem, since the chances that someone hacked into your NeTeller account at random (12 digit account #, 6-7 digit secure ID #, and a password) are about the same as me winning the WSOP ME this year (and I'm not entered).

As for the people bitching about the pics you posted, they're useless. I understand not wanting to post financial account info, but you have to understand that a NeTeller screen with no info and a blank Wachovia form don't really mean much.

[AliasMrJones]

[ QUOTE ]
"There's no way that Neteler would refuse to release info to their customer so you must be lying. Therefore my money is safe with Neteller."

Keep up that attitude.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is an illogical conclusion and I never said that. Just because you made up this story doesn't mean that Neteller is safe.

[gojacketz]

What were his reasons for making up this story? To discredit Neteller? They made good in the end (though their policies are questionable), so I doubt that is it. I cannot think of a reason for anyone to come up with this elaborate story just to bring attention to himself.

Gojacketz

[OldYoda]

[ QUOTE ]
I think many the basher are like ostriches with their heads in the sand. They absolutely refuse to believe that there could be any dangers in their secure little world.

But there are others who seem to exhibit a downright hostility towards the victim. If you don't believe him, that's one thing. But there seem to be some here who believe him but says it's all his fault and they have no sympathy I guess it's the old blame the victim mentality because that's easier to do than to acknowledge that they too could be vulnerable. If you tag the victim as somehow different from you and hence unworthy of your empathy, it makes you feel more secure that you'd be immune to this.

This is a phenomenon that extends beyond just financial fraud.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course it's his fault - it's his computer that was compromised. Neteller wasn't hacked, his machine was hacked. Who should take responsibility for his on-line security? Everyone with any experience knows that the internet is filled with bad people who have bad intentions. If you choose to go ahead and expose yourself to those risks without the proper safeguards then you shouldn't come here and whine about being cheated. Blame the victim? Sure, when it's their fault.

[WarmonkEd]

[ QUOTE ]
The point is it is HIS account and any transfer that happens (outside of fraud) is because HE did it. Why would or could they not tell you where you sent money from your account?

[/ QUOTE ]

Why don't we all just call Neteller and ask about our last withdrawal transaction? See what details they'll give and how many of us are given a hard time.

[illogical]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
hey neteller123, let me break it down for you... if your story is true.

1) neteller wasn't hacked. You're the only one whose account was hacked.
2)Your account was "hacked" through your own incompetence. Try to keep your personal info safer next time.
3)I have no sympathy for you. See item 2.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sheesh, what makes you think I give a rat's a*s*s about your sympathy? My point is, your Neteller account could get hacked and Neteller WILL NOT TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR LOSS because they are not regulated as a U.S. bank. Get it?

Again, I don't need your sympathy and I don't have a doubt you are an uber nerd who knows how to secure your home network.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your attitude stinks. It stinks more than your story. /images/graemlins/mad.gif Do you work for firepay?

[Stormwolf]

Neteller, whats your antivirus, firewall(if any)?

[AliasMrJones]

[ QUOTE ]
What were his reasons for making up this story? To discredit Neteller? They made good in the end (though their policies are questionable), so I doubt that is it. I cannot think of a reason for anyone to come up with this elaborate story just to bring attention to himself.

Gojacketz

[/ QUOTE ]

After this whole thread, I actually belive him at this point. However, having said that, it is still true that:

1. His original story posted under a pseudonym sounded fishy.

2. Whether he made up the story or not has no bearing on whether one's money is safe in Neteller.

[LinusKS]

[ QUOTE ]
If I give my friend my ATM card and the PIN, and ask him to get $50 for me, I can't get upset at the bank if my friend gets out $200 and doesn't tell me. You take a risk every time you give your NeTeller info to a website/casino/poker room.

[/ QUOTE ]

If someone makes an unauthorized withdrawal from your bank account (in America, at least), you're not responsible.

The bank will replace the funds, and the person who stole the money will be prosecuted.

If someone makes an unauthorized charge using your credit card, same rule applies.

If someone takes your Neteller money, those rules DO NOT apply.

If someone steals your credit card or your atm card, you WILL (assuming you report it in a reasonable amount of time) get your money back. If your Neteller money is stolen, you probably won't.

Comparing Neteller to a credit card or bank is misleading.

The point of the thread is not that it's Neteller's fault the OP lost his money, it's that your money is not as safe at Neteller as it would be in a bank.

Please don't confuse the issue.

[EdgyOne]

[AliasMrJones]

Don't be so edgy. Or grumpy. Or whatever the [censored] you are.

[AliasMrJones]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
If I give my friend my ATM card and the PIN, and ask him to get $50 for me, I can't get upset at the bank if my friend gets out $200 and doesn't tell me. You take a risk every time you give your NeTeller info to a website/casino/poker room.

[/ QUOTE ]

If someone makes an unauthorized withdrawal from your bank account (in America, at least), you're not responsible.

The bank will replace the funds, and the person who stole the money will be prosecuted.

If someone makes an unauthorized charge using your credit card, same rule applies.


[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry, but this isn't the case. One thing that separates a debit or check card from a credit card is you're only liable for, I think, $50 by law for your credit card if someone else goes on a shopping spree with it. There is no such law for a debit card which is attached directly to your bank account. Most people don't know this big difference between credit cards and debit cards.

[JAque]

When you use Quicken for online transactions in the US , you have no legal protection as if it was Neteller. For example, unless the servers or system of Bank 123 are proven to have been hacked, the bank assumes no responsability if your PC, Quicken or someone cracked the encryption that Quicken uses to send the data. The bank will only be responsable if the hacking occurs on their system. I will assume that if someone cracked Netellelr servers, they "may" be more willing to return your money.

JAque

[LinusKS]

Your liability is limited to $50 if you notify the bank within two days, and $500 after that.

pirg (http://www.pirg.org/consumer/banks/debit/fact.htm)

[MrDannimal]

For one, I think this whole saga has shown that you stand a decent chance of getting your money back if there's an unauthorizied transaction.

The issue isn't solely that NeTeller isn't as safe as a bank, because the OP repeatedly referred to NeTeller having been "hacked", and that NeTeller was awful in its response and getting his money back. That's simply not the case. The examples I gave were very relevant to the situation here. Unless it was a keylogger, he willingly gave his information out and it was misused.

Yes, the rules are different with banks. Given that NeTeller is fully within their right (According to their T&C) to say "Tough luck, pal. You play with online casinos/poker rooms, that's the risk you take" and DIDN'T is something that keeps being ignored. He got his money back within 6 days, spanning a weekend.

[PollyEmory]

Wonderful country we live in. Lack of any thought police so we're free to believe what we want to believe.

MrDannimal,

My point, and I do have one, is that the OP posted this information as information and did not request anything in return, and as you chose to not believe him he doesn't owe you, or anyone else bitching at him like yentas on market day, a god damn thing. You don't find the scans convincing? Well bully for you. I found the information interesting and certainly enlightening. Up until I read this post, I never gave two thoughts to my neteller money or how safe it is. For this, I'm really grateful to the OP that he put up with the bullshit some people dish out and kept up the thread.

Jesus Christ, people. Clicking on a link ain't a involuntary tick. Don't believe it, don't read it.

And for those holier-then-thou (lots of religious overtones in this post -- jeez) individuals whom computer viruses avoid like a plague: Corporations with much higher level of cyber security then your pathetic Inspiron get cracked all the time. It is responsibility of a company safeguarding liquid assets to assure that that the person who has access to them is authorized to do so. A responsibility from which we are too eager to absolve Neteller. If all it takes to get into a NT account is a keylogger, then those safeguards are clearly inadiquate. And instead of changing them to be more secure they are hiding behind a policy to ignore it until it goes away. It doesn't take much to make an account harder to crack. An email confirmation of a transaction is one. A required phone contact before email can be changed is another, so that someone who got the account# and secure id can't change the email. And while some might find this too burdensome, clients who chose to impose such restrictions on their accounts should have the option to do so. Hell, at the moment I'd settle for them sending the account number and the secure id number in two separate emails or sending one through the mail. This is just a basic security precaution and not hard to implement.

--Polly

[PollyEmory]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
hey neteller123, let me break it down for you... if your story is true.

1) neteller wasn't hacked. You're the only one whose account was hacked.
2)Your account was "hacked" through your own incompetence. Try to keep your personal info safer next time.
3)I have no sympathy for you. See item 2.

[/ QUOTE ]

Sheesh, what makes you think I give a rat's a*s*s about your sympathy? My point is, your Neteller account could get hacked and Neteller WILL NOT TAKE RESPONSIBILITY FOR YOUR LOSS because they are not regulated as a U.S. bank. Get it?

Again, I don't need your sympathy and I don't have a doubt you are an uber nerd who knows how to secure your home network.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your attitude stinks. It stinks more than your story. /images/graemlins/mad.gif Do you work for firepay?

[/ QUOTE ]


HA! That's rich!! You went out of your way to TELL THE GUY HE DOESN'T HAVE YOUR SYMPATHY(!!!!!!!!!!!!!) which is about the most useless of things to say, and then you bitch about his attitude. How would you have liked him to respond? How would you have responded to a similar post directed at you? I'm positive Neteller123 is regarding your sympathy witholding with all due seriousness it deserves. None.

[Forum Enforcement Division]

[ QUOTE ]
My point, and I do have one, is that the OP....

[/ QUOTE ]

You are the OP.

Please consolidate the multiple aliases you are using in this thread. Choose one and go with it.

You are confusing the newbies and boring the rest.

[PollyEmory]

ForumEnforcement division -- I am sure you have IP logged as an evidence of this, right?

I'd hate to think you're just a blowhard with no actual power blowing smoke.

[LinusKS]

[ QUOTE ]


And for those holier-then-thou (lots of religious overtones in this post -- jeez) individuals whom computer viruses avoid like a plague: Corporations with much higher level of cyber security then your pathetic Inspiron get cracked all the time. It is responsibility of a company safeguarding liquid assets to assure that that the person who has access to them is authorized to do so.

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point.


McD, the OP got his money back because the third party site cooperated, and because the thief didn't gamble it away or transfer it out in time.

He was lucky.

[PrincipalSkinner]

"I'd hate to think you're just a blowhard with no actual power blowing smoke."

BINGO!!!!

[AliasMrJones]

[ QUOTE ]
Your liability is limited to $50 if you notify the bank within two days, and $500 after that.

pirg (http://www.pirg.org/consumer/banks/debit/fact.htm)

[/ QUOTE ]

If you'd read what is on that page you linked you'd see this:

Although the banks have announced voluntary plans to limit liability to $50 or less, it should be the federal law (as it is in Massachusetts).

It looks like there is a liability limitation in MA, but that doesn't help the rest of us.