Bubble trouble... I often finish 4th-6th

[Dr_Jeckyl_00]

I am getting tired of placing fourth-sixth. I am basically a break-even player (at $11's) to sometimes down, rarely ahead for long. Below is my bubble play. The two hands I think I should have played diffently would be to go all-in w/ my A7, and fold my J9 (and lose my BB).
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t1400)
SB (t2315)
BB (t1445)
UTG (t2840)

Preflop: Hero is Button with K/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">UTG raises to t600</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>.

Final Pot: t1100

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t1400)
Button (t2215)
SB (t1245)
BB (t3140)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to t2415 (All-In)</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>.

Final Pot: t3015

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t1400)
UTG (t2515)
Button (t1145)
SB (t2940)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 2/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to t1345 (All-In)</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>.

Final Pot: t2045

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t300 (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t1200)
BB (t2515)
UTG (t1445)
Button (t2840)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 9/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>.

Final Pot: t1050

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t300 (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t1050)
SB (t2665)
BB (t1445)
UTG (t2840)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>.

Final Pot: t1050

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t300 (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t1050)
Button (t2515)
SB (t1595)
BB (t2840)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif. <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">SB raises to t1595 (All-In)</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Final Pot: t2195

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t300 (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t1050)
UTG (t2515)
Button (t1895)
SB (t2540)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9/images/graemlins/heart.gif, J/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Button raises to t1895 (All-In)</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, Hero calls t750 (All-In).

Flop: (t3095) A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 2 all-in)</font>

Turn: (t3095) Q/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 2 all-in)</font>

River: (t3095) 9/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 2 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t3095

[spentrent]

I'd most likely push the 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif9/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, and A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif7/images/graemlins/club.gif hands. Everything else looks standard (to me).

EDIT: I'd fold the J/images/graemlins/heart.gif9/images/graemlins/heart.gif hand.

EDIT AGAIN: Err, nevermind, that stack is BEFORE you post the BB, correct? In which case I'd call there.

[hummusx]

[ QUOTE ]
I'd most likely push the 6/images/graemlins/diamond.gif9/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif7/images/graemlins/heart.gif, and A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif7/images/graemlins/club.gif hands. Everything else looks standard (to me).

EDIT: I'd fold the J/images/graemlins/heart.gif9/images/graemlins/heart.gif hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree with the pushes. I'm not sure about the fold. You aren't going to have a whole lot of FE on the next hand (pot will be 1050 to his 450 to call). Although this might be the place where you realize you are so short stacked you should just wait and hope you get something you can double/triple with in the next 3 hands. J9s isn't the worst hand you could have...

[spentrent]

Sorry I got my re-edit in too late ;-).

[Dr_Jeckyl_00]

I am surprised that you push w/ 6 9 (Q 7 too). It is so weak... aren't you supposed to play much tighter in the bubble? Please explain why that is a push...

As far as my calling w/ J 9, felt like I had to make a stand since I only had 1 1/2 round left until I blinded out, otherwise I would not have called.

[spentrent]

BTW I might as well add some rationale.

For the 69 and Q7 hands your position makes for great stealing opportunities. The A7 hand is a nice one to have for defending future fold equity -- I would push any two there, in fact, to defend future fold equity.

[kyro]

[ QUOTE ]
aren't you supposed to play much tighter in the bubble?

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you even read this forum? Where are you getting this information?

[spentrent]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
aren't you supposed to play much tighter in the bubble?

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you even read this forum? Where are you getting this information?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that the old "How to beat the $10+1" post suggests this.

[RobGW]

What he said. You must get aggressive in these situations. You have 2 choices. You can push in a favorable situation and keep up with the blinds and other big stacks. You can fold and wait for good cards. If you start pushing, sure you'll run into good hands sometimes and bust out on the bubble. Sometimes you'll suck out on them and double up giving you a better chance to win. If you fold too much though, you'll have to catch a good hand which will not be often enough. Not to mention that even if you get your money in with the best hand you still may not win.

[kyro]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
aren't you supposed to play much tighter in the bubble?

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you even read this forum? Where are you getting this information?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that the old "How to beat the $10+1" post suggests this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really?

[lorinda]

You're being too cautious.

The Q7 /images/graemlins/heart.gif is a reasonably simple push and the A7 is an autopush.

If you play like this for the rest of the tourney, you're on your way to being a winning player, but you have to take these shots later on when the blinds are big.
Personally I fold the raggy sb hand, but a lot of players here won't.

If you're having trouble plucking up the courage to raise with this garbage later on, just remember you're going to come fourth if you don't play a pot, so you might as well try your luck....... while they can still fold!

Lori

[petvan]

Notwithstanding any good reads on ppl, I likely push the 69o, push the q5s, and definately call with a7. I tend to bust out a bit in 4th, but as short stack, I don't think you can sit around waiting for a monster while the blinds eat you alive.

I bet it is +EV, but I might not call the j9s as I like a little more high card strength, but I bet its a call mathematically (not my strong suit)

I'm no bubble expert by any means, but it is not the weakest part of my game (which might be very scary ;-)

P

[Dr_Jeckyl_00]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
aren't you supposed to play much tighter in the bubble?

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you even read this forum? Where are you getting this information?

[/ QUOTE ]

From AleoMagus' spreadsheet... late stages section... which everyone seems to agree with...

[hummusx]

You're mixing it up. Tight on the bubble is how the FISH play. YOU are supposed to get very aggressive on the bubble. Pushing with 69 has nothing to do with the cards and everything to do with everyone ELSE trying to tighten up. There's 1 fold already, and a reasonable chance that if you push the other two will fold. If you do NOT push some of these hands, you will end up with no folding equity and then just call with some random hand and get busted out.

[kyro]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
aren't you supposed to play much tighter in the bubble?

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you even read this forum? Where are you getting this information?

[/ QUOTE ]

From AleoMagus' spreadsheet... late stages section... which everyone seems to agree with...

[/ QUOTE ]

Then AM is wrong. I'm not positive he would ever advocate folding A7 UTG when you're sitting with just over 3BB.

Here's a quiz for you. Which scenario do you think is better for you.

Pushing for all your chips with a solid hand (A7), thereby giving your opponents a chance to fold, or calling off your chips with a weak hand (J9), on the very next hand because it's time to take a stand?

[spentrent]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
aren't you supposed to play much tighter in the bubble?

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you even read this forum? Where are you getting this information?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that the old "How to beat the $10+1" post suggests this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's been 6 months since I looked at that so I might be wrong but I don't feel like looking for it now. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[Dr_Jeckyl_00]

[ QUOTE ]
... You have 2 choices. You can push in a favorable situation and keep up with the blinds and other big stacks. You can fold and wait for good cards. ...

[/ QUOTE ]

Please define a favorable situation... do you mean position?

[Mr_J]

"aren't you supposed to play much tighter in the bubble?"

High calling standards, but much wider pushing standards. Pushing standards change drammatically depending on the position you are in, stack sizes and type of players. Remember, the key to pushing is having folding equity. How much folding equity you have decides what hands you can push with.

Eg
150/300 blinds
UTG 500
BT, Hero, 5000
SB, 1500
BB, 2000

In this situation when UTG folds and vs typical players you could push anything. This is because you have HUGE folding equity. You are big stack, and SB and BB won't want to call you since UTG is running very low.

Eg of little FE.

Blinds 200/400
UTG, 1000
BT, 1000,
SB, 1000 Hero
BB, 5000, loose aggressive

Silly to push here vs the LAG bigstack with any. It's only costing him 600 to call, and for that price alot of cards will look pretty. Best to wait and let the other stacks fight. In this situation you are really just trying to outlast the other players.

[spentrent]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
... You have 2 choices. You can push in a favorable situation and keep up with the blinds and other big stacks. You can fold and wait for good cards. ...

[/ QUOTE ]

Please define a favorable situation... do you mean position?

[/ QUOTE ]

It could be argued that since many players will only call a push with the top ~20% of hands, then any time you can open all-in is a favorable situation.

...excluding special situations like small stacks who need to call with odds to have a shot.

[Dr_Jeckyl_00]

I agree that I screwed up there, and AM's spreadsheet does say to push w/ A7+ from BB (and I missed that)

[lorinda]

Please define a favorable situation... do you mean position?

A7, backed up with a huge raise is likely to win the pot.

You have every chance of picking up the blinds with the raise, and even if you don't you'll be surprised how often the A7 is strong enough to win.

When you start getting that feeling of "I'm going to blind into fourth place" YOU are the only thing that can change that. You're probably out of time to rely on being dealt a good hand.

Lori

[RobGW]

You can throw position out the window at this point. A7 is likely to be the best hand in a 4 handed game. Even if its not, you don't have time to wait for something better. Other favorable spots include when its folded to you in the SB you could push with any 2 if you think you can get BB to fold. Thats why FE is so important.

[45suited]

WAY too scared / passive on the bubble. I do an exercise when I have spare time that I believe has made me thousands of dollars. Do this in front of the television or whatever:

Tell yourself that you are playing during bubble time. Stack sizes are relatively equal for the purposes of this drill (you have enough chips that someone isn't going to call an all-in based on pot odds because losing will cripple them). Now, deal out 4 hands. Start with the hand on the far right, look at the cards, ask yourself "can I push this?". If not, move on to the next hand, etc. If you decide to push one of the hands, then put yourself into the position of the guy on the left. Ask yourself, "Can I call an all-in with this?"

What you will find after dealing out thousands of hands is this:

1) It is a huge advantage to be the guy pushing.
2) 4 handed, monsters don't show up too often.
3) Even if you get caught by a monster, you can suck out.
4) (Obvious one here) Your pushing standards can go down
once there have been folds in front of you.
5) Depending on the circumstances again, it is often
correct to open push any two from SB. (Don't do this
too often, but even if you do it two times in a row,
usually one of the other players is getting in chip
trouble.
6) BE AGGRESSIVE. AGGRESSION WINS!!!

[Dr_Jeckyl_00]

Thanks for all the great advice. I can't wait to try it out tonight.

I have a follow-up question. When should I start playing this loose/aggressive... when there are only 4 people left? What if there are 5 or 6 people left?

[lorinda]

When should I start playing this loose/aggressive

When you start thinking "Oh crap, I'm going to come fourth" and the blinds are big enough to make a difference.

Lori

[Shillx]

When you are on the short stack, you just have to make moves unless you think that the bigger stacks will clash and take each other down. Usually they wait for the shorty though, so when in doubt you should just push. Out of these hands I'd push...

96 SB
Q7s button
A7 UTG

You really want those 450 chips in your stack. If you can steal a few times, then you put the pressure back on someone else to either steal or find a hand worth calling. You can't just let yourself get down so low like this. Give yourself a chance to either win the blinds or get called and double up.

Brad

[Dr_Jeckyl_00]

Is this bubble play strategy the same for all on-line games (i.e. $11-$55 and higher?) What about live (not on-line) games?

[spentrent]

[ QUOTE ]
Is this bubble play strategy the same for all on-line games (i.e. $11-$55 and higher?) What about live (not on-line) games?

[/ QUOTE ]

The bubble strategies discussed here assume that blinds are high and stacks are short. These facts imply the above tactics.

Things change when stacks are deeper. For instance, NYCNative has a thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&amp;Number=2566940&amp;page=0&amp;view=colla psed&amp;sb=5&amp;o=14&amp;fpart=1) today about a deep stack tournament bubble where you won't see a pre-flop push advocated due to the deep stack nature.

Everything depends on everything. :P

EDIT: Err, that's not really a bubble but you get the idea.

[lorinda]

STOP!

There is no magic formula.

You're an intelligent human being, if you were not you wouldn't have found these forums and asked intelligent questions.

You are a break even player, so you have the perfect opportunity to learn for free.

The idea on the bubble is to survive as long as possible by taking chances just before you really have to but giving other players the maximum chance to bust out.

There is no cheat sheet, use that intelligent brain to learn concepts, not specifics.

Lori

[Mr_J]

"Is this bubble play strategy the same for all on-line games"

No. You can be more aggressive at higher buyins.

Don't just be loose aggressive. Correct bubble play is deeper than guys here are making it sound.

[curtains]

The final 3 hands before you were eliminated were extremely clear pushes to me. Folding the A7o is beyond ridiculous. These are the kind of common mistakes that will absolutely kill you and leave you with zero chance to win a signifigant amount at a higher level (or maybe even this level). You just can't play like this, understand that your opponents will not call you very often when you put all your chips in preflop. You must immediately work on changing your play if you want to improve, because these folds were disastrous.

[Myst]

[ QUOTE ]
STOP!

There is no magic formula.

You're an intelligent human being, if you were not you wouldn't have found these forums and asked intelligent questions.

You are a break even player, so you have the perfect opportunity to learn for free.

The idea on the bubble is to survive as long as possible by taking chances just before you really have to but giving other players the maximum chance to bust out.

There is no cheat sheet, use that intelligent brain to learn concepts, not specifics.

Lori

[/ QUOTE ]

Yeah, what she said.

[Dr_Jeckyl_00]

Thankyou everyone for all of your advice. It helped get me out of a jam when I was getting short and also build my stack. But I may have done it too much. I think I always did it from SB if folded to me, and I could tell they were getting angry at me, especially the BB... and he finally called when I had nothing good... did I go to far? (see below)

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t200 (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t715)
Button (t2555)
SB (t1865)
BB (t1520)
UTG (t1345)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t715 (All-In)</font>, <font color="#666666">3 folds</font>.

Final Pot: t1015

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t300 (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t1165)
BB (t2555)
UTG (t1765)
MP (t1020)
Button (t1495)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, 3/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t1165 (All-In)</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Final Pot: t1465

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t300 (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t1465)
SB (t2255)
BB (t1765)
UTG (t1020)
MP (t1495)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 9/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t1465 (All-In)</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>.

Final Pot: t1915

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t300 (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t1915)
MP (t2105)
Button (t1315)
SB (t1170)
BB (t1495)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t1915 (All-In)</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>.

Final Pot: t2365

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t300 (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t2515)
BB (t2105)
UTG (t1315)
MP (t1020)
Button (t1045)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 5/images/graemlins/club.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t2515 (All-In)</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Final Pot: t2815

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t300 (5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t2815)
SB (t1805)
BB (t1315)
UTG (t1020)
MP (t1045)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 2/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP calls t300, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t2815 (All-In)</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls t1015 (All-In), MP calls t745 (All-In).

Flop: (t5325) 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 9/images/graemlins/spade.gif, A/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players, 3 all-in)</font>

Turn: (t5325) 2/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players, 3 all-in)</font>

River: (t5325) 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif <font color="#0000FF">(3 players, 3 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t5325

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t300 (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t2040)
Button (t1655)
SB (t1020)
BB (t3285)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K/images/graemlins/club.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif. SB posts a blind of t300.
<font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t2040 (All-In)</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>.

Final Pot: t2340

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t400 (4 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero (t1940)
BB (t2255)
UTG (t720)
Button (t3085)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7/images/graemlins/club.gif, 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t1940 (All-In)</font>, BB calls t1540.

Flop: (t3880) 7/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 3/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Turn: (t3880) 5/images/graemlins/club.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

River: (t3880) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players, 1 all-in)</font>

Final Pot: t3880

... game over for me...

[spentrent]

You should paste this to a new "after" thread with a link as a reference to this one. You'll get more post action I think /images/graemlins/wink.gif.

[Dr_Jeckyl_00]

how do I do that?

[spentrent]

Also: usually it's useless to show the results but in this case, the caller's cards in your bust-out-hand might illustrate a point.

If it was a legitimate calling hand, then you'd see how successful your newfound strategy has been. If it was 89s, maybe you'd gone overboard?

[spentrent]

[ QUOTE ]
how do I do that?

[/ QUOTE ]

Just click "Edit" for the post you made and copy all the text you have in there. Then make a new post and paste it.

[EasilyFound]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
aren't you supposed to play much tighter in the bubble?

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you even read this forum? Where are you getting this information?

[/ QUOTE ]

I think that the old "How to beat the $10+1" post suggests this.

[/ QUOTE ]

Really?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's been 6 months since I looked at that so I might be wrong but I don't feel like looking for it now. /images/graemlins/cool.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

From that sheet: "Play very tight with 4 left, much looser when in the money. Don't worry about second place: gamble for 1st, settle for 3rd."

That is what it says.

[Dr_Jeckyl_00]

I mean how do I add a link?

[lorinda]

But I may have done it too much.

You got to the point where you were no longer the one that was under pressure to gamble.

The guy with 720 chips probably loves you.

Do not get frustrated though, you've found a new skill, it will take a little while to hone it into a weapon and at least now you know what you're trying to do.

Lori

[spentrent]

[ QUOTE ]
I mean how do I add a link?

[/ QUOTE ]

Under the text area where you type in your message, click "URL" under "Instant UBB Code." Paste the URL to the post in that box that pops up and the url code will be generated.

It's (url=http://whatever.com)Link text that is underlined(/url) -- replace the parentheses with square brackets.

[tjh]

Way to apply the lesson !!!

Congrats on the new tool.

[ QUOTE ]
Don't just be loose aggressive. Correct bubble play is deeper than guys here are making it sound.



[/ QUOTE ]

It is deeper than just "be aggressive" the usual error is that most players do not realise that everyone has just gotten very conservative and that with this in mind they can be pushed around. By the time the bubble hits the maniacs are probably gone, if they have survived they are big stacked and you should probably stay away from them. Meaning if they fold then you can push to steal the blinds if they are in the game only play good hands. Assuming no maniacs then you are playnig with some fish or perhaps good players who are looking to make it into the money, they are not likely to take risks. Bet into them and they will fold more often than they should.

--
tjh

[elcheapo]

May or may not push 69 against BB depending on BB looseness or more exactly awareness of pot odds. After that you have to push Q7 or A7 (probably your best chance). You can't assume that you'll pick up a hand in the BB etc. you have to take your chances with almost any two when you have some fold equity..