Two mildly interesting turns [Archive] - Two Plus Two Older Archives

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MoDOH

06-06-2005, 01:18 PM

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

SB and MP in this hand has about the same stats. 45/5/1 with a WSD of 55%

Preflop: Hero is Button with 6/images/graemlins/club.gif, A/images/graemlins/club.gif.
UTG calls, MP calls, Hero calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, T/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 7/images/graemlins/club.gif (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, MP checks, Hero checks.

Turn: (2.50 BB) A/images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 players)
SB bets, BB folds, UTG folds, MP calls, Hero...

Obviously hero doesn´t fold...

The very next hand
Villains are the same as the previous hand

Party Poker 5/10 Hold'em (6 max, 5 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Preflop: Hero is MP with A/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
UTG calls, Hero calls, Button raises, 2 folds, UTG calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (7.40 SB) 5/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 8/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, Button raises, UTG calls, Hero 3-bets, Button calls, UTG calls.

Turn: (8.20 BB) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (3 players)
UTG checks, Hero...

Is there any merit in checking this turn?

Surfbullet

06-06-2005, 02:25 PM

FWIW I raise both these preflop, esp given how loose/passive the opposition is.

Hand1: A turn raise my fold out lots of hands that are drawing slim or dead, so I see nothing wrong with calling and betting if checked to on the river. Also, it's more of a WA/WB situation than anything, where if WA you will lose callers and if WB you will get 3bet which sucks.

Hand2: Check the turn. The 8 is a bad card, it devalues both your 6 outs and your A outs if you are behind to the passive button (which is likely). You don't have enough equity to bet/raise for value, so see the river as cheaply as possible.

Surf

MoDOH

06-06-2005, 04:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
FWIW I raise both these preflop, esp given how loose/passive the opposition is.

[/ QUOTE ]

give me A8s and I raise, A7s and it´s close, but with A6s I like limping in both hands.
In hand 1 2 players have limped already and with a loose SB I favour limping on the button here instead.
In hand 2 I would have raised had I been OTB but with a loose button behind me I opt to limp instead with hopes that if button calls chances are that we are going to the flop 5-handed...

[ QUOTE ]
Hand1: A turn raise my fold out lots of hands that are drawing slim or dead, so I see nothing wrong with calling and betting if checked to on the river. Also, it's more of a WA/WB situation than anything, where if WA you will lose callers and if WB you will get 3bet which sucks.

[/ QUOTE ]

If you opt to raise this turn I think you should check alot of rivercards. since it´s a thin Turn raise at best I would hate to get CR on the river...

[ QUOTE ]
Hand2: Check the turn. The 8 is a bad card, it devalues both your 6 outs and your A outs if you are behind to the passive button (which is likely). You don't have enough equity to bet/raise for value, so see the river as cheaply as possible.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what I first thought too, but when I looked at the hand afterwards I wasn´t so sure anymore... I mean look at the action preflop and on the flop. Button doesn´t have a 8 in his hand. He either got two big overcards or an overpair that is looking for a turn raise. UTG could have an 8 but that´s just one hand out of a wide range of hands he could have.
The more I think of it the more I think betting the turn is the right play here. By threebetting the flop we have represented TP and if we are raised on this turn we have an easy fold on the river unless we improve.

billyjex

06-06-2005, 04:44 PM

I would bet the turn in hand 2 as well. We can rep the 8 --

otherwise I like surf's analysis of hand 1.