Bet this turn with AA?

[DrPublo]

Party game, 100NL 6max. Dont have the hand history in front of me, but all stacks are around 100. UTG raises a lot PF and doesn't appear to be very good, lots of min bets after the flop, etc.

I'm UTG+1 with black AA.

UTG limps, I make it $4, CO calls, button and blinds fold, UTG calls.

Flop is 89T with 2 hearts.

UTG checks, I bet $10, two calls.

Turn is an offsuit 4.

Checked to me, I check, CO checks.

River is a black 7.

Check, I check, button checks.

UTG takes it down with KJo.

Do I need to bet this turn or is it asking for trouble because the flop is so coordinated?

All comments welcome.

The Doc

[DoubleDown]

I think the check on the turn is good after getting called in two spots. either they have both hit or really like their draws and will likely call a large turn bet as well. even if you are ahead it is probably not by much, and i think this is a good spot to excercise some pot control by not overly inflating it. once the river hits- there's even a slimmer chance that your hand is best (i'm assuming you would have folded to any bet? ... a strategy with which i would have agreed.)

[DrPublo]

[ QUOTE ]
i'm assuming you would have folded to any [river] bet?

[/ QUOTE ]

Unquestionably.

The Doc

[Ghazban]

Against two other players, I would almost always bet the turn. At least one of them is likely on a flush/straight draw and I don't want to give free cards. I also don't want to be stuck in the middle on the river if some sort of scary-ish card comes and I get bet into. If you bet the turn, you might get CO to fold and then you will have the option to check behind on the river and showdown cheaply.

[soLit]

Considering you are last to act I aggree, you must continue to put pressure on them. If they check it to you, they probablly dont have anything great yet, Even if your not far ahead your probablly still ahead, I say bet the turn, If they are weak/passive you could bet big enough to get them to fold, if they are loose/aggressive, maybe bet about half the pot that way they wont be sure of what you have, and it will make it hard for them to fire on the river without a premium hand

[DrPublo]

I agree that I can safely fold if I bet the turn and get raised. However, I feel like given the texture of the flop it's probably best to keep the pot small. If the river bricks again I can call a reasonable bet, especially given that the turn has been checked through. What I don't want to happen is to bet the turn, get called, and then have a river decision when I get bet into (if it's a brick). By checking the turn, I think I can convince an opponent with only one pair that I have something like a missed AK and snap off a river "value bet" in a smallish pot.

The Doc

PS How do you like the line of checking the flop and betting the turn hard if it's a brick? In my experience, on a coordinated flop like that I'm certain to get called by at least one of the two opponents, and my equity against a pair+draw type of hand isn't that great on the flop, but it can go up dramatically on a turn brick.

[DoubleDown]

[ QUOTE ]
If you bet the turn, you might get CO to fold and then you will have the option to check behind on the river and showdown cheaply.

[/ QUOTE ]

CO has shown some interest in this pot already as he called a near-pot bet on the flop ... and what, if anything, tells you that he will not call a near pot bet on the turn (with both a draw and/or a made hand)? especially if he knows that the 3rd OOP player is likely to call as well, thus giving CO good odds (should he be on the draw.) i dont think you can assume that you are getting a fold from CO here.

i think a bet on the turn in this spot unneccesarily inflates the size of the pot, and will most likely not allow hero to either take it down right here, or get to a showdown cheap as he is ...a) likely getting called in at least 1, possibly 2 spots ... b)increasing the size of the pot, which forces him to make a bigger blocking bet on the river (should he decide to use one) ... c) getting raised and probably having to fold on this dangerous board

[DrPublo]

[ QUOTE ]
Considering you are last to act I aggree, you must continue to put pressure on them. If they check it to you, they probablly dont have anything great yet, Even if your not far ahead your probablly still ahead, I say bet the turn, If they are weak/passive you could bet big enough to get them to fold, if they are loose/aggressive, maybe bet about half the pot that way they wont be sure of what you have, and it will make it hard for them to fire on the river without a premium hand

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm actually in the middle, and I'm more afraid of the CO than UTG.

The Doc

[Ghazban]

[ QUOTE ]
How do you like the line of checking the flop and betting the turn hard if it's a brick? In my experience, on a coordinated flop like that I'm certain to get called by at least one of the two opponents, and my equity against a pair+draw type of hand isn't that great on the flop, but it can go up dramatically on a turn brick.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, if you know somebody has a pair+draw type hand, checking the flop and betting a turn brick is great but you have no way to know that. In a multiway limped pot, you can make a much better case for waiting until the turn but, against just two players, assuming somebody's got a hand like that is seeing monsters under the bed. This is balanced somewhat by the fact that, if you check the flop, somebody with a TPTK-type hand might think they're good on the turn and will bet it for you then, at which point you can either call or raise with enough stack depth to not pot commit yourself. I think that betting is better than checking on both the flop and turn but checking isn't out-and-out wrong in either place.

[AaronO]

Were you at all concerned that you were beat after your bet on the flop by two pair or trips?

I could see a tight/weak player calling your flop raise with one of those hands.

[TheWorstPlayer]

Bet the turn. This is Party Poker. You can easily fold to a raise and you a)don't want to give free cards and b)want to get value from the garbage that they will call with.

[DrPublo]

[ QUOTE ]
Were you at all concerned that you were beat after your bet on the flop by two pair or trips?

[/ QUOTE ]

This is exactly why I checked the turn.

The Doc

[DrPublo]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
How do you like the line of checking the flop and betting the turn hard if it's a brick? In my experience, on a coordinated flop like that I'm certain to get called by at least one of the two opponents, and my equity against a pair+draw type of hand isn't that great on the flop, but it can go up dramatically on a turn brick.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, if you know somebody has a pair+draw type hand, checking the flop and betting a turn brick is great but you have no way to know that. In a multiway limped pot, you can make a much better case for waiting until the turn but, against just two players, assuming somebody's got a hand like that is seeing monsters under the bed. This is balanced somewhat by the fact that, if you check the flop, somebody with a TPTK-type hand might think they're good on the turn and will bet it for you then, at which point you can either call or raise with enough stack depth to not pot commit yourself. I think that betting is better than checking on both the flop and turn but checking isn't out-and-out wrong in either place.

[/ QUOTE ]

Most SC hands or "I'll try to outflop him" hands have some piece of this flop. 78, 89, 9T, TJ, etc. Maybe monster under the bed syndrome.

The Doc

[soah]

[ QUOTE ]
really like their draws and will likely call a large turn bet as well.

[/ QUOTE ]

This sounds like a good reason to bet, not check.

[soah]

[ QUOTE ]
Most SC hands or "I'll try to outflop him" hands have some piece of this flop. 78, 89, 9T, TJ, etc. Maybe monster under the bed syndrome.

[/ QUOTE ]

Your opponents aren't trying to crack aces, they are trying to make top pair. And they will call you down with a pair, because they can think of at least one hand that you may have raised preflop with that their pair can beat.