Home Etiquette (This would make you mad too)

[justdanutz]

I was playing a small sit and go with 10 friends this past weekend.

Shortstacked against the two chip leaders I pushed all in after the biggest stack folded. I had about $2400 in chips left with the blinds at $400-800.

The player who was still debating to 'call' my hand had actually picked up his cards from the table.. which I translated as "he was ready to fold his hand". A player who had been knocked out of the tournament, who was still sitting at the table says. "You could knock him out right here." So the guy decides to call me with 10-2 off vs. my K-4 off. Without blowing my stack, I told him to "Please shut the **** up, and don't help anyone else in the hand, especially when you're not even in the tournament. On the flop, the caller hit a deuce, but I turned a king to take the pot down and eventually win the tournament.

The point is, this sort of talk is not allowed in a casino, and for good reasons.

What do you think is the best way I should handle establishing some rules at our home game? And players that talk about hands?

Thanks,
nutz

[sct]

We actually have this rule in place:

* The one-player-to-a-hand rule will be enforced. You cannot expose your cards to someone and/or ask for advice from someone. This will result in your hand being declared dead. If there are multiple people left in play they will continue without you. If there is just one player left, he/she will be awarded the pot.

It really sucks having to print up 40 odd rules so people will play "normal" without a lot of the crap that should never be done in the first place.

[SamIAm]

[ QUOTE ]
You cannot expose your cards to someone and/or ask for advice from someone. This will result in your hand being declared dead.

[/ QUOTE ]
That's crazy. Your rule's not SO bad because it says "ask for advice", but are you really saying that it pertains to the above story?! If so, all I have to do is yell "You have more chips than your opponent!" and suddenly your hand is declared dead.

I actually think that players are too touchy about this. I agree that players on the sidelines shouldn't say "Ooh, the river makes a flush." or "Player A is always bluffing when his nose twitches." or anything like that. I don't kill peoples' hand for it, though. I just warn players to stop, and since we're all friends, they do.
-Sam

[sct]

[ QUOTE ]

That's crazy. Your rule's not SO bad because it says "ask for advice", but are you really saying that it pertains to the above story?! If so, all I have to do is yell "You have more chips than your opponent!" and suddenly your hand is declared dead.


[/ QUOTE ]

Specifically, no it does not pertain the above situation. I over read the post thinking the fellow had showed his 10-2 to the 3rd party which is where the rule would then apply.

Our game specifically encourages goading, so we walk a fine line sometimes.

I stand by my statement that it sucks to have to have etiquette rules when they should be the normal and expected behavior.

[KenProspero]

I don't think this is etiquette, so much as custom. In other words, what's been done in this game in the past? Are there hard and fast rules for 1 player per hand or do people kibbitz all the time.

Also may depend on the stakes. Small stakes game, where people are there for bonding and having a good time -- anything goes. Stakes that 'mean' anything to anyone at the table, usually less friendly.

[msb]

Yes. I really hate this, too.

But the more I've thought about it, I'm not so sure these things don't help you out in the long run. Here's why: First of all, usually the guy dispensing the unsolicited advice doesn't know sh!t and, most of the time, is giving bad advice (like this case, for example). Second, if the guy playing the hand actually needs advice like "a 4 gives you straight" or "wow, look at all those hearts", then I want him in my game every night.

I'll admit is sucks when you are bluffing an all-in and your opponent is convinced to make a bad call by someone else... and he sucks out on you. Although this didn't happen in your case... even if the 10-2 did hold up, you'd want him making that call 100% of the time, anyway.

Also, as I've said before... many times these "helpful" players will make bad reads of the board (i.e. "I'd like to have the Ace of spades for the nut flush right now..", when you're holding a full boat, etc..) or they will put a bad idea into a poor player's head (i.e. he never saw he had an inside straight draw until the loudmouth mentioned it was there... so he decides to call your pot-sized bet to chase it.)

Anyway... the best advice it to try use it to your advantage when you can. And I would either refrain from correcting anybody while you're still in the hand -- that would be a bad tell. Alternatively, have three or four canned responses that you use randomly (i.e. "Yea... put me out of my misery" or "Better not follow this losers advice", etc...) so they can't get a true read on you.

[justdanutz]

That was actually really sound advice about having a few canned responses. In my case, I didn't really complain about it, until after the cards were turned up. I just didn't want to let it "slide by" without saying something. And the player that made the call, actually is a good player who knows better than to talk about the hand. I guess he wanted me to lose the tourney and get sucked out on.. not sure of the motivation. I guess before the next tourney I could mention a few ground rules, I'd like to follow.

[justdanutz]

I guess I don't think the stakes of the game should matter. We are all putting up 10 bucks for a chance to win $90. (2nd gets their $ back)

If you're out of the tournament, and trying to help speed things up by dealing for the table... the last thing out of your mouth should be advice.

[KenProspero]

My real question is what normally happens at this game. Do people kibbitz all the time, or was this a rare occurrence.

If it's 'friendly' and people do this all the time, my advice to you would be to find a game that's more serious. You'll have a better time there.

If there's an explicit or implicit rule that people take the game more seriously, then say something the the person running the game (often the host) to stop it from happening in the future.

[PhatPots]

There is player in my home games who is a hopeless poker player. At times he often seeks the advice of other players because he doesn't know what to do. The other players always say, I can't tell you what to do. And you need to make that known in your games too. U have to say to the other guy, don't give advice, no coaching! Tell them that the other player needs to make his own decisions.

Pots

[tubalkain]

[ QUOTE ]
I guess I don't think the stakes of the game should matter. We are all putting up 10 bucks for a chance to win $90. (2nd gets their $ back)

If you're out of the tournament, and trying to help speed things up by dealing for the table... the last thing out of your mouth should be advice.

[/ QUOTE ]

Flatten your payout structure and Banhammer the first person to screw up a tourney by giving advice.

[MrShawn2U]

I have had a similar problem. People were pissed because I sometimes act a bit cocky at the table and beat them all alot, so they want to see me lose. Well it came down to just me and a friend who was a sitting duck. He didnt even want to play anymore, and tried to go all in multiple times to get out of the game but kept winning. I thought, oh this will be easy! Well my friend who is very competative (and I had already busted out) asks if he can play for this guy so the guy can leave. I said no way, knowing he is a way better player then this guy. Well everyone was helping this guy against me anyway, so I worked out a deal that I take part of the pot if I lose. I had a huge chip lead and won anyway, but you have to set rules even at a home game. I like the one about nobody can see your hand or its dead. I think I will start that one.

[justdanutz]

thanks, i think you've all put in some interesting advice. i think laying down a few 'if you do this x,y, and z'.. i will kick the s**t out of you rules, wouldn't hurt our game..

[Jeebus]

If you are going to allow an audience then you have to deal with people talking. Table banter, such as you can bust him on this hand or look at all your chips, things which have nothing to do with the actual hand itself only a statement of a situation are not really messing with the game. It sucks when someone decides to call, or fold, because of it but it happens. I really don't see how this can be considered a big deal.