They always get so angry.

[sahala]

So I've been following all the 2+2 advice about pushing like a madman from good spots when it gets down to 5-handed or bubble time and the blinds are at 200-ish. I turn into a total Hamburglar when it gets to L5 (or even L4) if the dealer doesn't deliver in early/mid-game, which is more often than not.

When it's folded to me on the button or SB I'm usually pushing with anything decent. In the SB case, almost with any two).

I've noticed that players, especially in the BB, get pissed after a while and start to spite call my J9s all-ins, usually with AQ, AJ, etc. Sometimes they hit and deliver the "I caught you offguard with my 55. hah!" speech and sometimes I luckbox it and get the "you're a f-in suckout" treatment (both get the same response -- nothing).

My question: should one back off every now and then and not steal, even if it's a good opportunity, just because of the higher likelihood of a spite call? I see people risking 3/4 or all of their whole stack with hands like AJ. I feel like there's a little rage-meter for every player where they're likely to call when it bursts.

My button steal hands are: Kx Qx Ax, all pairs, and higher suited connectors.

My SB steal hands are: ~xx.

Sorry, don't have any hand histories to illustrate.

[pergesu]

No, you don't stop pushing because you'll get spite-called. You figure out what they'll call you with, and adjust your pushes accordingly.

This is why it pays off to spend a couple hours with SNGPT. You can know what hands to push with against what calling ranges. As you play, if you think the guy's getting pissed off for some reason and will expand his calling range, you know what kind of hand you need to have to push against him.

[sahala]

[ QUOTE ]

This is why it pays off to spend a couple hours with SNGPT. You can know what hands to push with against what calling ranges. As you play, if you think the guy's getting pissed off for some reason and will expand his calling range, you know what kind of hand you need to have to push against him.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem here is that at least in the 11s, where you don't always see familiar faces, it's hard to get a read for someone's pushing range if the only time you get that information is your last. If Hero doesn't get lucky on a spite call it will at least half the time be a crippling blow.

[ilya]

You can get the most helpful answer yourself by fooling around with an ICM calculator.

Incidentally it's often correct to call pretty big all-ins with hands like AJ on the bubble. For example when there's a big stack and a medium stack pushes into your medium stack. Your opponents may well have been making the right plays.

[DasLeben]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

This is why it pays off to spend a couple hours with SNGPT. You can know what hands to push with against what calling ranges. As you play, if you think the guy's getting pissed off for some reason and will expand his calling range, you know what kind of hand you need to have to push against him.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem here is that at least in the 11s, where you don't always see familiar faces, it's hard to get a read for someone's pushing range if the only time you get that information is your last. If Hero doesn't get lucky on a spite call it will at least half the time be a crippling blow.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, it's oftentimes hard to determine how quickly your opponent's calling requirements go down. At a $10+1, it's possible that someone will just suddenly "have enough" and spite call you with trash if you've been pushing too much.

I'm not sure if this is optimal, but I've been known to give up a +EV push here and there (as long as I don't immediately need the chips) in order to maintain FE. I'm finding that this is working out fairly well at the $10+1s, where people can be rather unpredictable.

[pergesu]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

This is why it pays off to spend a couple hours with SNGPT. You can know what hands to push with against what calling ranges. As you play, if you think the guy's getting pissed off for some reason and will expand his calling range, you know what kind of hand you need to have to push against him.

[/ QUOTE ]

The problem here is that at least in the 11s, where you don't always see familiar faces, it's hard to get a read for someone's pushing range if the only time you get that information is your last. If Hero doesn't get lucky on a spite call it will at least half the time be a crippling blow.

[/ QUOTE ]
Hero should still know what kind of hand he needs to push when his opponents have average, loose, or maniac calling standards.

[Newt_Buggs]

even at the $50s I'm learning that I need to back off, especially when I'm the big stack on the bubble and it should be +EV to push any two every hand. It seems like everyone but the best players will drop their calling range to very loose if you start stealing more than one hand in a row.

[sahala]

Are you sure AJs worthy of calling an all-in? I was under the impression from a different thread here that you can only call an all-in from the SB with AA, KK.

[deathpotato]

Bubble play is extremely situational, and that is a very fundamental concept that you need to understand. As a big stack with two stacks of 3BB at the table you can't call off all your chips without an absolutely excellent hand. In an even-stacked game calling an aggressive SB's push with AJs can be very easy.

Edit: if you don't believe me, look into the math for yourself. Look up the ICM calculator and work out the EV of different bubble plays. If you can afford it, buy Eastbay's program. All of these things will greatly help your bubble play.

[sahala]

I'm specifically referring to this thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=2549350&page=&view=&s b=5&o=), where the main consensus is push with any two when folded to you on the SB.

[deathpotato]

I understand that. But in that thread the BB can only call with AA-99 even if he knows you're pushing any two because of the two 1000 stacks. If the stacks were 2500, 2500, 2500, 2500, BB would be quite right to call with AJs against an SB pushing with a random hand.

[sahala]

Yup. Just re-read the OP on that thread more thoroughly and I didn't take into account the big stacks. Oops. You are correct.

Side note: just downloaded eastbay's tool. Now I've got something else to play with while bored at work.

[viennagreen]

even the best players will (correctly) lower their calling standards if they know that you're pushing a very wide range of hands.