Top pair good kicker against all-in raise on the flop

[Marc Desjardins]

Vilain is pretty tight, but he hasn't showed down a hand yet in the 30 hands I've played, actually he never made it pass the flop.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $ BB (9 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

Hero ($24)
MP3 ($58.91)
CO ($18.25)
Button ($24.3)
SB ($36.78)
BB ($25)
UTG ($38.8)
UTG+1 ($18.35)
MP1 ($17.65)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Q/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/club.gif. SB posts a blind of $0.1.
UTG calls $0.25, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, MP1 calls $0.25, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to $1.5</font>, <font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, Button calls $1.50, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, BB calls $1.25, UTG calls $1.25, MP1 calls $1.25.

Flop: ($7.60) T/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, 4/images/graemlins/diamond.gif <font color="#0000FF">(5 players)</font>
BB checks, UTG checks, MP1 checks, <font color="#CC3333">Hero bets $7</font>, Button calls $22.80 (All-In), BB folds, UTG folds, MP1 folds, Hero...

this kind of move smells like a set or maybe AQ, since he never made it past the flop yet, I have to give him credits for a big hand, no? Or maybe he decided that the post was big enough to make a move.

What range of hands do you put him on? I'm really hoping for JJ or AK, I really hate to fold top pair on such a flop...

[TreyOfLight]

[ QUOTE ]
Vilain is pretty tight, but he hasn't showed down a hand yet in the 30 hands I've played,

[/ QUOTE ]

Against a tight opponent, I fold this 95% of the time. The bet smells a little funny, though: it's a safe flop for any made hand he might have (it's unlikely you have the straight draw unless you're a donk), he has position and (if I were him) I'd expect to get allin on the turn easily. So it's a strange play for top two or a set, but if he has the oesd, stack and pot sizes make for a good semibluff opportunity.

Combine that with a few other factors (maybe he's frustrated that he hasn't had a decent flop in 30 hands; maybe you've been raising preflop a lot and making a lot of continuation bets with nothing) and maybe I could talk myself into a call. But probably not.

Full ring and lacking position, KQs is not a quality raising hand. On a dry-ish flop like QT4r I'd bet about half pot, to keep the pot small.

[Marc Desjardins]

[ QUOTE ]


Full ring and lacking position, KQs is not a quality raising hand. On a dry-ish flop like QT4r I'd bet about half pot, to keep the pot small.

[/ QUOTE ]

So you would only limp with KQs or you won't even play it in early-middle position?

Then when you flop top pair, bet half the pot and get called, what's your play on the turn? Bet again? If so how much? Or just check? If you do check and they bet, how much are you willing to call?

Sorry for the many questions, but it's really the kind of hand that I hate, flopping top pair, but in early position and getting flat called on my bet.

Obviously this hand wasn't the case, if you wonder, I talked myself into calling, turn was a Q, river was a K giving me a boat. He had AA...

[TheWorstPlayer]

Easy fold. You say you hate to fold top pair on a drawless flop, but that is exactly when it is EASY to fold it. What can they be raising with, other than a made hand? If it were Q/images/graemlins/heart.gifJ/images/graemlins/club.gif2/images/graemlins/club.gif I would hate to fold top pair because it might be a draw that he is pushing with, but on this flop unless he is calling raises with KJ and then pushing his OESD (very very unlikely) then you are behind here and can easily fold. Also, about preflop: I like the raise, but I only make it $1. I expect to get a lot of calls and I just want to charge people a bit for coming in with dominated hands and I also want to build a pot in case I hit a nice hand or draw with my good multi-way hand. Also, I might be able to take it down with a continuation bet (or check behind for a free turn card if that is my choice) but I don't like having that continuation bet be so big, so I don't like raising too big preflop here. I think $1 would be fine.

[TreyOfLight]

[ QUOTE ]
So you would only limp with KQs or you won't even play it in early-middle position?

[/ QUOTE ]

I would still play it, it can play well in large pots. And (like TWP said) stacks are deep enough that you could even raise it, but it should be a pot building raise that expects lots of callers, not a one-two punch raise like you'd make with AQo. I probably limp it about 2/3 of the time in that spot.

Whatever you do, it's an oft-dominated hand and you must proceed carefully after flopping one pair.

[ QUOTE ]
Then when you flop top pair, bet half the pot and get called, what's your play on the turn? Bet again? If so how much?

[/ QUOTE ]

It's situational. If the other player is decent AND I think that we both have made hands AND I think he won't make a gross overbet that I can't call, then check-call is OK.

If the other player is a calling station, I'll bet again and small enough that he'll call with second pair. Half-pot is fine; one nice thing about turn betting is that the odds of hitting a straight or flush drop to about one in five. Even a small bet can give your opponent incorrect odds.

[ QUOTE ]
If you do check and they bet, how much are you willing to call?

[/ QUOTE ]My objective with one pair and 100BB stacks is "don't get all in". I want a cheap showdown or a fold. I'd be very wary of calling any bet that left me pot-stuck on the river. Same deal with calling any raise on the flop, even a minraise: if I respect the raiser at all I'll drop TP right then.

You can make yourself crazy and broke by worrying about getting bluffed off TPGK: Don't. If a guy is routinely making huge bets with worse than top pair, that's a hard pattern to conceal. You're going to notice and stack him the next time you make a better-than-top-pair hand.

[ QUOTE ]
Obviously this hand wasn't the case, if you wonder, I talked myself into calling, turn was a Q, river was a K giving me a boat. He had AA...

[/ QUOTE ]I once read on these very forums that if you never, ever got all in with top pair postflop you wouldn't be giving up very much. That advice has saved me a ton of money.

[Marc Desjardins]

thanks a lot for the very detailed answer, I'll keep it in mind for a long time.