Flopped a flush. Did I play it right? Help!!!

[empty]

Ultimate Bet $100 No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (10 handed)

Table: VP$IP = 19
PFR% = 4

SB ($38.80)
BB ($157.50)
UTG ($66.15)
UTG+1 ($47.90)
Hero ($115.90)
MP1 ($54.05)
MP2 ($68.70
MP3 ($88.80)
CO ($132.55)
Button ($52.55)

Hero is UTG+2 with 7/images/graemlins/spade.gif 5/images/graemlins/spade.gif

Pre-flop: 1 fold, UTG+1 calls $1, Hero calls $1,
2 folds, MP3 calls $1, CO raises to $2, 1 fold, SB calls $2,
1 fold, UTG+1 calls $1, Hero calls $1, MP3 calls $1.

Flop:($11) J/images/graemlins/spade.gif A/images/graemlins/spade.gif 2/images/graemlins/spade.gif (5 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero bets $16,
MP3 folds, CO calls $16, SB folds, UTG+1 folds.

Turn:($43) 10/images/graemlins/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $45, CO calls $45.

River:($133) 8/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks.

Final Pot: $133

Results in white below:
<font color="white"> Hero has 7s 5s Js As 2s: flush, ace high.
CO has 2c 2d: three of a kind.
$3 is raked from a pot of $133.
Hero wins $130 with flush, ace high.
</font>

I was wondering how most of you would have played this hand.
I'm not sure how my river play was. I originally checked to
minimize my losses, but then when i thought about it, I had
about $50 left, so if he had me beat I think he would surely
bet that after i checked (since the pot was so large), but I
was definitely calling if he DID make the bet.

I like to play these suited connectors from fairly EP
and don't know if this is correct. Please comment on this hand,
and I encourage ANY criticism and feedback.

Thanks.

[fimbulwinter]

when you check the river he always checks behind with the hands you beat and he always bets with the ones you don't.

fim

[Suntzu00000]

you cannot continue to call from early position with crap like 75s. You will get your ass handed to you. As for the rest of the hand...

Flop- You bet too much. A pot sized bet would be more appropriate, however your 1.6 bet was not too bad. On this flop you are either a big favorite or drawing dead. You want this bet to define your hand, but not risk more chips than neccessary to do so. For example, if the CO had raised all-in for a hundred more dollars would you have called that? Probably not unless the guys a maniac. In those situations you will have saved $5. In other words a $10 bet will do the same thing for you that a $16 dollar bet will without risking as many chips.

Turn - Looks good.

River - Fire them all. This guy has shown no strength whatsoever. It is very likely he is playing TP or something that finishes second to the flush.

[Spladle Master]

Pre-flop is standard, on the flop I'd usually just pot it, no need to overbet unless the table has been really loose and someone is likely to call. Turn bet is good, it really puts your opponent to the test. If they want to draw to a big spade or a boat they're sure as hell gonna pay to do it. River is awful. Push this river. You'd push if all you had was the K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, right? So push this river. Fin.

[dtbog]

[ QUOTE ]
you cannot continue to call from early position with crap like 75s. You will get your ass handed to you.

[/ QUOTE ]

What do you mean?

First of all, table VPIP is a very tight 19%. Personally, I play more hands when the tabl is so tight.

Secondly -- and more importantly -- table PFR is 4%. What does this mean? Well, your implied odds go way up, because if someone does raise, and you both have deep enough stacks, he probably has a premium hand (if someone's raising 4% of hands, what are they raising?).

What would you think if it had been 76s?

-dB

EDIT: Note, I'm not saying here "ya, play 75s anywhere, go for it"... I'm just looking for some justification for this criticism that I hear so often. Also, if Hero is doing this sporadically -- 20% of the time? -- it's different than if every 75s is getting limped from any position.

[swedeD]

If someone had the nutflush, he would prob just call after the flop and Hero will loose at least another pot-size bet. Why do you want to define your hand? I rather make a 1/2 pot size bet against tight weak players so worse hands will stay in the pot OR an overbet, just like Hero did, against loose aggressiv players, making them (hopefully) think that I'm bluffing or are trying to protect my TPTK or something.

EDIT: I mostly play 6 max, so that are definitely affecting my thoughts about this hand.

[PinkSteel]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
you cannot continue to call from early position with crap like 75s. You will get your ass handed to you.

[/ QUOTE ]

What do you mean?

First of all, table VPIP is a very tight 19%. Personally, I play more hands when the tabl is so tight.


[/ QUOTE ]

I play a tight table a little more loosely (if I play it at all), but I loosen up only in position. 75s is OK for occasionally mixing it up, and definitely OK from CO or BTN, but from UTG+2 I'm going to muck *almost* every time.

I agree w/ others, OP loses value by checking the river. There are worse hands that will call your bet but would also check behind, and you lose out. Push the rest.

[PinkSteel]

But now that you have your flush you must price out single-spade draws. If you only bet 1/2 pot you are giving good implied odds to a dry A/images/graemlins/spade.gif or K/images/graemlins/spade.gif. You can get killed playing this slow.

[swedeD]

True. If I make a 1/2 pot bet, I'm hoping for a reraise from an aggressiv player with top pair or better.

[empty]

Ok, here's what i was thinking to justify my play:

Preflop:
The PFR% was only 4. I could limp alot or call min raises with these suited connectors... And when i hit, bust some kid limping with AA. (which is fairly common at these tables)

Flop:
I bet $16 at an $11 pot so no A/images/graemlins/spade.gif would call me. I wanted to just take it down, or make As pay for it. I really wanted to protect my hand.

Turn: I figured here is where he would tell me if I'm beat or not. After I fire out $45 he's gotta know I have a hand. So i thought he might raise with a hand that has me beat, to get me all in on the turn, because if he knows I have a weak flush, a river spade will send me packing. When he cold called, I really didnt know where I stood. I had no real read on the player, he just joined the table.

River: Since he cold cold a monster bet on 4th, I checked to him on the river thinking that MAYBE if he had me beat, he'd only bet a portion of my remaining stack.

Thanks guys for the feedback.

[empty]

I meant when i bet $16 on flop, so no K/images/graemlins/spade.gif calls me (forgot the flop had A/images/graemlins/spade.gif).

[soLit]

The flop is luck its that simple , with a 4% pfr, limping a hand like 7/5 suited is not that bad of an idea considering if you hit it will pay off. The only question I have is. If your playing 5/7 suited your looking for 2 things. A flush or a straight, if your going ot risk playing this [censored] UTG+1 2 or 3, you might as well get paid off to the fullest.
I think the flop bet was too big, usually you would only get a call from ... something like 2 pair with a higher flush draw or a higher made flush. And if they had 2 pair with a higher flush draw that would leave them 9+2+2 outs to either boat up or hit a higher flush, which gives them a 52% chance to improve according to the 4-2 rule which then puts you in a coinflip. Although if you wait for the turn and the board does not pair up and another flush card does not hit, now if you bet big, you will get a call from 2 pair or maybe a flush draw, and they will be drawing to a worse chance of improving such as 26% chance to improve on you according ot the 4-2 rule again. which now gives you much better odds.

[Shibby]

It's not possible to have two pair and a flush draw on the flop.

I think what's important about this hand is that his opponents are more likely not to put him on a flush. When I flop a flush, whether it be the nuts or a baby one, I lead with it hard so that people try to run me down with their two pair or sets or even the naked Ace or King draw. Sometimes I get shown a bigger flopped flush, but it's so rare that I can fade that. I like the way OP played it and I do like the river check.

[ QUOTE ]
And if they had 2 pair with a higher flush draw that would leave them 9+2+2 outs to either boat up or hit a higher flush, which gives them a 52% chance to improve according to the 4-2 rule which then puts you in a coinflip.

[/ QUOTE ]
Let's just for arguments sake say that they picked up two pair on the turn. They'd have 4 pair the board outs with 7 flush outs. 11 outs to beat me, and two of four cards have to hit runner runner. I'll take my chances.

[allintuit]

I agree with your flop play, but I definitely would have at least value bet the river. He showed no strength on any of the cards, so I put him on nothing. I would have probably thrown in a medium bet to get him to either lay it down or call. The possibility of getting raised here is so minimal that I would definitely have bet.

[primate]

[ QUOTE ]
you cannot continue to call from early position with crap like 75s. You will get your ass handed to you. As for the rest of the hand...

What a lot of tosh. Played correctly this hand can bust a big pair resulting in pay day. You got to know how to play the flop with this hand.

[Suntzu00000]

Fair enough DB, in analysing my own play when I was just starting out playing trash up front got me killed. Raising every now and again with T9s - 87s is mixing it up, playing 75s is just spewing chips in the long run. Its been my experience that callling up front is foolish as well because you let the idiot playing K3s or other trash limp in behind you and then you know what happens.

Also, it has been my experience that a big mistake decent players make is to play too loose at a tight table. Certainly, more hands can be played against weak tight players, but the place for that is in late position (90% of the time). And when you play upfront, I feel that a raise is necessary (%90 of the time) to thin the field and insure that you are playing against premium hands and domination wont be an issue if you hit your hand. If memory serves, there were 4 other preflop callers in this hand, the table may be tight, but many tight players could have limped in with KQs or T9s.

[TheWorstPlayer]

Push the river.

[Spladle Master]

[ QUOTE ]
Ok, here's what i was thinking to justify my play:

Preflop:
The PFR% was only 4. I could limp alot or call min raises with these suited connectors... And when i hit, bust some kid limping with AA. (which is fairly common at these tables)

[/ QUOTE ]

Like I said, pre-flop is standard. I'd need a reason to fold this hand rather than a reason to play it.

[ QUOTE ]
Flop:
I bet $16 at an $11 pot so no A/images/graemlins/spade.gif would call me. I wanted to just take it down, or make As pay for it. I really wanted to protect my hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Bad reasoning. If you bet $16 into an $11 pot, you WANT the A/images/graemlins/spade.gif to call you. Why would you want to "just take it down?" You have a good hand. You should want to maximize value with it. And a pot bet protects your hand. However, given that you got called, I say nice overbet.

[ QUOTE ]
Turn: I figured here is where he would tell me if I'm beat or not. After I fire out $45 he's gotta know I have a hand. So i thought he might raise with a hand that has me beat, to get me all in on the turn, because if he knows I have a weak flush, a river spade will send me packing. When he cold called, I really didnt know where I stood. I had no real read on the player, he just joined the table.

[/ QUOTE ]

If he's decent I'm betting he has a set.

[ QUOTE ]
River: Since he cold cold a monster bet on 4th, I checked to him on the river thinking that MAYBE if he had me beat, he'd only bet a portion of my remaining stack.

[/ QUOTE ]

And if you have him beat he's going to check behind. Push the river.

[wallofchips]

I think you played it fine until the river, you should have moved in. A lot of people would play that hand in ep, but I think it's too low for a one-gapper. Online games (also most B&amp;M NL games outside of Vegas) have restricted buy-ins so you don't have as much implied odds. Therefore, you should be more selective about the "creative" hands you play. Pocket Pairs are better for most modern NL structures.

[CashFlo]

It's probably been said already...but the PF call is not good.

[big_steve]

you made him pay for the full house draw which is good, similarly if he had a Ks he also paid for the draw. Nice hand mate